Ep 166: Turning Emails Into Stories That Sell | Guest Expert Joanne Homestead

We break down how to turn everyday moments into immersive, open-worthy emails using a simple three-layer framework: storytelling, personality-infused copy, and strategy. We share hooks, edits, CTAs with reasons, and where storytelling fits across sequences and newsletters.

• Three-layer email framework: story, personality, strategy
• Show don’t tell, strong hooks, satisfying endings
• Everyday stories tied to lessons and offers
• Ruthless editing using the so what test
• Reasons-first CTAs that increase clicks
• BANK personality codes to speak to values
• Welcome, pre-launch, and sales sequences
• Repurposing emails into video, blogs, and podcasts
• Shift from convincing to diagnosing symptoms and causes
• Start simple with one story and one clear next step

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Joanne Homestead:
Joanne Homestead is your expert email copywriter, holistic copy coach, and obsessed storyteller. With over 15 years of experience creating captivating and aligned messaging as a master teacher, she empowers soulful entrepreneurs and coaches in wellness, well-being, and mindset elevate their stories to connect, compel, and soulfully sell with integrity, email-style. She’s a momma of two little ones and loves a good cup of chai to fuel her creativity and passion for storytelling marketing.

Website | LinkedIn | Guide to Writing Irresistibly Entertaining Emails the Sell | Quiz: What's your best step to cultivate deeper connections in email?

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Guest Introduction
• 4:07 The Three-Layer Cake Framework
• 7:17 Storytelling As 3D Marketing
• 12:14 Show Don’t Tell And Hooks
• 17:24 Everyday Stories That Convert
• 22:44 Satisfying Endings And Momentum
• 26:54 Pruning And Purposeful Editing
• 30:54 Personality-Infused Copy That Moves People
• 36:24 Reasons-First CTAs And The Xerox Study
• 41:24 BANK Personality Codes For Resonance

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 1:35

This is Sarah Blah Block, a podcast that helps B2B service businesses do more with less. Learn lean, actionable, organic marketing strategies you can implement today. No fluff, just powerful growth tactics that work. Ready to scale smarter?

SPEAKER_01: 1:52

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SPEAKER_00: 1:58

Hey Joanne. Can you introduce yourself to the audience?

SPEAKER_01: 2:02

Hey, yes, Sarah. So I am Joanne Homestead of Desk Plant Creatives. I am an email copywriter, copy coach, and story whisperer. And so I really empower female entrepreneurs and coaches in wellness, well-being, and mindset to be able to write open-worthy email that get more engagement, more clicks, and more client coming through in their emails, all through their 100% authentic writing voice.

SPEAKER_00: 2:34

That is amazing. And I love the angle that we're going with this because like I love email marketing. It's my favorite way because I can connect one-on-one with my audience. So it's my favorite thing to do. However, oh I hear the I hear the three-year-old. There's just got home. So you weren't lying. You do see just literally got home from preschools. Oh, yes. Oh, so me too. Yeah, nice. Okay. So today we're talking about the storytelling element of it. So um I want to get into introduce introducing that to the audience. So, like, what is the first email that you want to send to kind of set the stage that this isn't an ordinary mom? Cool mom. No, this isn't a normal email campaign. You're being taken on a journey, you're hearing a story.

SPEAKER_01: 3:38

Oh, yes. Um, I think there's still like two parts to that I'd like to talk about. One is like the storytelling piece of it. And then the other piece of kind of what you're talking about is um, how do we start setting the tone from that first email and training your email readers to want to open your email and read through it and you know, read first line to the second line to the third, all the way to the bottom. And so that piece is kind of like what I talk about is the personality-infused copy piece of it. So, what as an email copywriter, I like to think of it in three, like three layers. The first top layer, like, okay, I'm all into like the Great British Baking Show.

SPEAKER_00: 4:23

So I can't not watch baking shows in the winter. There's just something so cozy about them.

SPEAKER_01: 4:30

I have been, I so you know, winter is coming here, and so um the Great British Baking Show is number one on the list because my boys like watching it too, and it's really fun and it's cozy. So this is gonna be a cake analogy.

SPEAKER_00: 4:44

Okay, let's go.

SPEAKER_01: 4:46

The first layer is the the storytelling. The second layer is the copywriting, and that's where it's the personality infused copy. And then the third layer is the email strategy. So let's just start with the let's let's start with the first layer with the storytelling piece of it. Um, and then we can talk a little bit about the cop the personality, personality infused copy. So the storytelling, what I like to compare it to in your emails, is it's like taking your marketing, your your expertise, your you're writing about um your expertise as an entrepreneur coach. And that's kind of like the 2D. It's like you open a book and it's 2D. And then the storytelling is adding like a 3D immersive element to it. And that's the piece of like the it's like an open-worthy email. People want to open it, they feel immersed in it. It's like dropping someone into like a movie trailer, you know. So hot-up books these days are, I don't know if you've seen them at the library, but they're very, they're so intricate. They used to be, you know, I think when I was a kid, you'd you'd open it and one little like a bunny pops up.

SPEAKER_00: 6:06

Yeah. And they had like one little fold that would go back.

SPEAKER_01: 6:10

Yeah, you just get the one fold. And um, when my older son was two years old and we went to the library and he found the pop-up book section. I audibly gasped when I opened the pop-up books now because an entire you open the page and an entire world pops out. It's super intricate. And it even has a little pages on that page where you can open it and then as a mini immersive pop-up, it's it really is like you're entering into the world. And so storytelling to me is like that. It's like turning your 2D marketing into like 3D immersive, you're connecting emotionally with them and they're getting to know you through your stories as well.

SPEAKER_00: 6:54

Okay, I have questions. So, one, I don't know if you know this about me, but I'm also a fiction writer. And when I think of storytelling and immersion, I think show, don't tell. Make them feel like they're there, make them feel like they are feeling the pain that you're feeling. Now, is that what you be mean by storytelling? Because there's so many interpretations of it.

SPEAKER_01: 7:22

Okay, yes, that's such a good question. I love how you're also, I think I do remember saying you're a fiction writer because I'm getting your emails and I love them. So thanks. I think I remember seeing that in there. So, yes, great question. What I like to think about is there are the storytelling techniques, which is kind of what you're talking about, which is the show don't tell. I'm also a former teacher of 15 years, and I taught um literacy, and I was also a literacy specialist and coach. And so one of my biggest passions was writing and teaching my students how to write in a way that's compelling, and it's not the here's your five paragraphs essay.

SPEAKER_00: 8:04

Start with your introduction, you gotta have three So that's what my kids are doing right now, and they're always showing it to me. And they're like, How would you compare this to the kind of writing you do? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 8:18

And I just say, like, you throw that all out that you learned from from from school. Um, it says really about even even when teaching students how to write, it's those storytelling techniques. One is like show, don't tell, you know, another is how do you hook, how do you hook the reader in from the first down?

SPEAKER_00: 8:38

That's huge.

SPEAKER_01: 8:39

Yeah, yeah. That's a that's a big one. And that one's like, I feel like a lot of people get stuck on that one, which I have a lot of techniques around like how to not end up in paralysis when you're writing. There's a lot of different techniques. So the storytelling that I like to talk about, um, there's like seven different types of stories I like to um teach to my members in my program. Uh, one of the my favorites being like the everyday story. And so you're taking stories just from your everyday life, which a lot of people think, oh, it's boring, no one wants to hear it. You know, I'm I'm going out grocery shopping with my kids or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00: 9:18

And I don't know why, but that is also the first thing that popped into my mind grocery shopping.

SPEAKER_01: 9:23

Yes, grocery shopping, go to go get coffee. Like those everyday stories are it's just like unlimited storytelling content for your business. Um, and I think the great thing about those stories is that they're relatable. Like you immediately thought of like, yes, grocery shopping, which grocery shopping with kids is never boring. So maybe that's not the success.

SPEAKER_00: 9:45

No, but it is something you probably end up doing like every day because you're like, I forgot that thing.

SPEAKER_01: 9:51

Yes, every time we're like, ah, we have to go back to the store. And so these everyday stories you can tell in your emails in a way that's compelling through storytelling techniques like show don't tell, how to hook the reader in, um, how to write, like how to get that emotional connection in your writing. And so then you can basically take those stories and connect it to what you do in your your business, you know, what what your expertise is. So, like, for example, um uh an acme specialist can connect it to how does this how does her story relate to how does she loves roller skating? I'm sorry, I'm thinking of a past client here.

SPEAKER_00: 11:34

She loved roller skating. That was very specific. It was very specific.

SPEAKER_01: 11:39

She wrote a story about roller skating, and then it segues into talking about um how this relates to her client and their hormones and how that relates to to acne. And so as a teacher, I believe like any story can be connected to any any kind of lesson you like what's the takeaway you want your readers to come away with. Um, and so yeah, everyday stories are are my favorite out of the seven.

SPEAKER_00: 13:05

Yeah. And that just reminded me also when you're writing, you want people to be compelled to turn the page. So do you have like there's cliffhangers, there's oh, like leaving someone on on a point where they need to know more. So how would you use that in email?

SPEAKER_01: 13:29

Oh, yes. Okay, such a great question. So I okay, so all good stories have like the beginning, you have the art, and then you have like a satisfying, you gotta have a satisfying ending, right? Yeah, and I feel like each email can it can have that. And then also want you to lead on to, oh, there's more, like there's more. And then, oh, there's more, oh, there's more. Like it's continually like peeling back the layers. So definitely one is for each email, I don't I don't necessarily like to hook someone in and I teach this to my clients, and then like leave them hanging, where it's like this, it's not satisfying because you feel like, oh, I I need to put it in the next email to keep them reading. Like you want them to have that like satisfying, oh, okay, you know, at the end of the email.

SPEAKER_00: 14:26

And you know, that that I need to read more could be from paragraph to paragraph too. Like, how do you keep them engaged?

SPEAKER_01: 14:35

Right. Yeah. And that's that's the thing with like starting with the first line, how do you get them to read the second line? How do you get them to read the third line? I would say that the most common mistake I see with writing in emails is that once people start with like an introductory paragraph, that they can just um they can just delete that whole paragraph because they're going back to what they had learned from writing in in school is I need to have like a whole introductory paragraph. It's gonna, I gotta set, I gotta set up the whole scene. But instead of that, and that's where the hook comes in, is like usually you can take that first whole introductory paragraph and you can literally just like throw it away. And that's okay. I know a lot of people feel like I'd spent I spent that time to to write. I put that energy and mental effort into it. You know, people might have like an emotional connection to that paragraph. Um, but I like to say that's part of the writing process. So it's okay to have that part in there because it's it's just like a part of when you're writing, how you can get into the flow. And then when you go back, that's when you go, okay, I can this usually this first whole paragraph I can just throw out. It was a great way for me to get into the writing, but it just it really isn't gonna hook and capture someone's attention for the rest of the email. So I would say that's definitely one of the biggest mistakes. And then definitely after writing that first messy draft, because there's there's always gonna be the first messy draft, and that's okay. When you go back, that's when um you can use uh I like to call it like the ruthless pruner. Basically, you're gonna go through and you're gonna see um what you can cut out. And when you do that, you're just asking yourself, so what? Like you're putting yourself into the shoes of your readers, and they're continually gonna be asking themselves, okay, so what? Like, what does this have to do with with me? Not like they're being selfish, but in a way of they're really wanting to be there to understand what what your expertise is and how does that relate back to them. So when you're going back and editing and revising your email, always be reading from that lens and seeing, okay, like why, like every word and sentence has a purpose. Like, why, why is this here? What's the purpose? And if there is no purpose, then you could probably it could probably go or you can uh move it to a different part of the the email.

SPEAKER_00: 17:08

Okay, so that makes sense. I think I understand the story structure. Um, let's talk about that second piece, setting the stage. So, from that first email, how do we get our readers to understand like this is the experience you're gonna get from me?

SPEAKER_01: 17:28

Yeah. So that is like the personally infused copy, the middle layer of that wonderfully, deliciously chocolate cake, whatever cake you want there. Um, and that's where you have that layer of the storytelling. And then the copywriting piece is I'd like to explain is um how do you orchestrate your words so that it compel someone to take action? Um, and it's not about being pushy, it's not about manipulative marketing. It's really just about um how do you get someone to own their action, the action that you want them to take? And it's the same thing in teaching for my students. I'm not forcing them to like, you have to learn this, this is what you have to learn. It's all about how do I engage them? What's going to be relevant to them? And then how do I get them to a place like what you had said, you're guiding them on a journey. How do I get them to a place to say, oh, this is the action I want to take? And I see why I want to take it, because it's going to benefit me in X, Y, and Z. And so that's the same thing in copywriting is like, how do you get people to take that action? And then the fun part I like to sprinkle in is how do you get your personality in there? So it doesn't just feel like it's just another email from an email template, which a lot of my clients come to me with is I'm trying using these email templates, they're not working. It's because their their voice isn't in it. And also I, you know, I hear a lot of I'm using AI, I'm using Chat GPT, I'm having it write my emails and it's not working. It's it's the same thing. It's because it's very, it's it's very flat. It's not hooking the people in that they that my clients are trying to attract to them. And so when you add your personality into your copy, that adds another layer of, okay, I understand why I want to take this action. And I'm also getting to know you in the process, which is that emotional connection. People are going to more likely do things because of that emotional connection. So that's what I call my my sticky cat topics of how to infuse your personality into your copy. And it doesn't have to be necessarily look one way or another. I think that's another big I mean, I think that's the biggest. Um it's the most common mistake I see, and I I've fallen into it, is like, oh, I have to write a certain way. I have to sound a certain way. Um, and then they're not getting that engagement from their emails because they're when you start writing from your authentic writing voice, then people notice and they'll they'll start to engage. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 20:18

Yeah. I uh completely get that. I'll have people reply to my emails and just say, I love your emails. And like they're not specifically taking any action. It just feels like me. It feels like you're talking to me. But um, so I there were a couple pieces that I really wanted to hang on to. So, what are some strategies we can take to help people maybe see themselves in that story so they realize that they want to take action on the thing that you're writing about?

SPEAKER_01: 20:55

Hmm. Okay, so generally, this is this is one of the things that it's one of the tips that I like to share with like when clients come to me and they're like, I wrote this testimonial, this transformational email. It was about their client's transformation in their program. And they're they're so excited about it because they're like, look at look at this amazing transformation that happened with the client. And they're like, no one, no one click, no one clicked on on like it was a quick two-minute, you know, video testimonial. Um, and that's that's where the the the copywriting piece comes in. But what one like one big tip you can do with your CTA, the call to action, is give, like, give a reason. Give a reason for them to take the action. Like, um, for the example of of the email with the testimonial, like, click here to listen to the the two-minute testimonial because, and then give the reason why they should listen to it. Like, um, you can find find find your own story in it or whatever, whatever it is, because people are way more likely to take the action when you give them a reason. They did this whole uh there was a whole study done on this where um there are people standing in line to make copies at a Xerox machine. So yes, I know this is a little out.

SPEAKER_00: 22:25

Um they still exist. They still exist.

SPEAKER_01: 22:30

And it it kind of the study is fascinating, but uh basically people are standing in line to make copies. And if you just if you try and cut in line and just say, can I cut in line? I said I don't remember what the percentage was, but it was like 90 to 100% said the person said no, you can't you can't cut me. But if you give a reason, suddenly um people, it was like 90 to 100% said yes, like can I cut you because I'm running late? Or they even did one where they said the reason was can I cut you because I want to cut you? People would say yes to that too. They would say yes, so even if the reason was just exactly what the action was, I would thought that's what I'm saying. I would probably say no still. And I'm like, I can't. No, I not but I I think there's there's something to be said about g just giving when you give someone a reason, then they're more likely to to take that action. It's just again about helping them process why to take the action to help them understand like what the what the benefit would be for them.

SPEAKER_00: 23:47

Yeah, that makes sense. So, okay, let's go from the beginning. We have a hook. We're telling everyday stories that lead back to our businesses, our offers, so they can kind of see like how this works in a way that relates to them. Um, we want to keep people reading. I always think of um the monster at the end of this book. You have a three-year-old. So you probably know the Grover story. Grover. Like you keep on reading, you're like, what's the end of the book? But it's like there's a constant desire to flip that page to see what's gonna happen next. So you can kind of do that in your storytelling to keep people reading to that next paragraph. Ruth ruthlessly edit. So it'll be like an Erm Ernest Hemingway situation where he said something like, uh, write drunk, edit sober. You write a messy front first draft, and then you edit ruthlessly, and then you want to end with a call to action that gives them a reason to actually take action. Okay, excellent. Um, let me see. Am I missing anything on this one?

SPEAKER_01: 25:10

I also didn't um I I feel like also another piece of that when you're talking about like the um the monster at the end of the book, like getting them to keep reading. And this is something that's um I teach is using the bank personality codes. Uh, have you are you familiar with that? Okay. So the bank personality codes is a communication system um all around how buyers make their decisions based on their values. And I really like it because it's very, it's just like human-centered, person first, and it's values-driven, which I which I love. And so it I I teach on how how do you also speak to your ideal client's bank personality code because it's it's really more values driven. And so they're going to want to keep they're gonna want to keep reading to the next page in the next page because they're um you're speak you're speaking their code, basically.

SPEAKER_00: 26:11

Oh, that's interesting. I've never heard of that. You better believe I'm gonna Google it immediately after this call.

SPEAKER_01: 26:17

Yeah, yeah, Google it, um, bank personality code. I used to, so the I was trained by uh a certified bank trainer in her program around it, and then I realized like, oh my gosh, I can use this for my clients for copywriting. And so I've kind of integrated it in. And um, one of the things you do is you crack some the first thing you do is crack your own code and then you crack someone else's code. And I also like it because it's easy, it's fast, it's like 90 seconds, it's very easy for cards. And uh I used to tell my husband when I was in the training program, I'm I'm collecting people's bank codes. And he said, That sounds very illegal.

SPEAKER_00: 26:59

It does. Like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_01: 27:02

And I said, Oh, okay, I think I need to say bank personality codes, put personality, because if it's just bank codes, then yes, I can see that.

SPEAKER_00: 27:11

Yeah, it sounds like you're stealing pen numbers.

SPEAKER_01: 27:13

Yes. Yeah, yeah. So you crack your your your client code, and that way you can basically um integrate that into your into the storytelling and copywriting.

SPEAKER_00: 27:26

Okay. That is really cool. I'm gonna check that out. I have one more question and then I'll prompt you if there's anything we missed. But I am curious what kind of email marketing this works best in. Because when I read storytelling and email, I my mind automatically went to sequences. I was thinking of it as like a chapter of a book, would be each email in the sequence. That's how my mind worked for it. But would this also work with one-to-one emails or um or like your everyday nurture? Well, not everyday, but your weekly nurture emails, for example.

SPEAKER_01: 28:06

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I feel like storytelling can go in any uh of the emails. So it could be for email sequences specifically. Like uh the three I like to focus on are the welcome nurture email sequence. When someone first joins your email community, they go through a welcome nurture sequence, and that's where they're getting to know a bit of who you are, what you stand for, and what's your magic sauce. And then um, the other two sequences I like to focus on um mostly for coaches, uh, personal brands who have program, like they launch programs, services, or packages. And there's a pre-launch nurture sequence, and that's where you're guiding someone through like understanding what their more awareness around what their problem is. And that primes them to go into a sales sequence, which is then they're gonna be ready to hear the sales sequence. I want to say gone through the pre-launch. Storytelling can go through any of those sequences, and it um I also like to have like timely email newsletter, kind of like what you're saying. Like you write a weekly email newsletter.

unknown: 29:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 29:16

Stories definitely go into there. And I I like to mix both the sequences and email newsletters because then people also feel like they're getting like real time, real time you, like what is on your heart to share right now, because I think that's really important as well. Like, so whatever you have to share in your heart is something people need to hear. So um add on that that layer as well. Uh I I a lot of my clients take their their email sequences and their email newsletters, and they they I I am a high proponent for repurposing, I'm sure for you as well. Like in marketing. Love repurposing. We purpose that. So in the emails basically inspire them, like, oh, I can use this basically as a script for my YouTube video that I I can use. And then they go, oh, this could this is actually a seed for a blog. I can expand on this. And and it again, I as as a marketer, as you know, like it depends on everyone has a different marketing plan. And so for some, it's like, oh, this could be a YouTube, this can be my next YouTube video, or this can be my um the seed for my next blog post, or this can uh be a series in my podcast. Um, and so you basically can take these stories and you can just repurpose, dice it up. Like say, like if you cook a big meal, you have leftovers, you can repurposing is like taking those leftovers, dice it up, put something new in, and then you can like it almost like grows over over the week.

SPEAKER_00: 30:54

Yeah, that's really smart. Um, there was something that came up in my mind, and I forgot. I had a question that came up. Okay, that happens. So, okay. Last thing you said was or on your form, you had that you have a copy clarity quiz. Can you tell me about that?

SPEAKER_01: 31:18

Oh, yes, actually, and then I might also talk about my email storytelling guide too. Is that okay?

SPEAKER_00: 31:24

Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah. Okay, put that on there.

SPEAKER_01: 31:29

Uh so kind of like we well, kind of like what we talked about with the the hook, the storytelling, then segue into your talking about your marketing content and then the DTA. I have a an email storytelling guide that's free. And it has in there like 25 story prompts. It has seven types of hook. Let's see, I'm trying to remember. Um, it has um also 15 or 20 segues that you can just plug and play. So it's really like a reference guide. Um, and it's like something that you'll actually use and not just look at it and and forget about it.

SPEAKER_00: 32:12

Yeah, I mean download it.

SPEAKER_01: 32:14

Yeah, you can grab that. Um, and that I mean, I still referen I also reference that for myself sometimes.

SPEAKER_00: 32:20

I do the same thing. I reference my resources constantly. Yeah, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01: 32:25

So see, that's how you know it's like this is a good resource because sometimes my brain is just not working. I'm like, I need to go to my uh right, exactly. Okay, I love that. So that's my email storytelling guide. It's called Three Simple Steps to Irresistibly Entertaining Emails That Sell. And then I do have a new freebie. It is the copy clarity compass quiz. And that one is basically taking my seven-step stories framework that I use in my program. And I've found this is these are all the pieces. Um I'm I'm using a circle as a wheel because the quiz is basically it's not your, it's not your standard quiz where you it's not like multiple choice. It is, it is a wheel, and you get ended getting a visual of your strengths and places you want to work on next. And so it just gives you a lot of clarity around what's going on with copywriting in your emails because a lot of times clients come to me thinking it's just the copy. But what we uncover is a lot more than that. And so this wheel will help you uncover and pinpoint exactly what it is that might that is working and is not working.

SPEAKER_00: 33:46

I remember what I was going to ask or what came to my mind. Okay. Okay. Yep. So I love that you have those two sequences where the first sequence, the more nurturing sequence, helps people uncover what problem they're going through because a lot of times people are just symptom aware when they come to you. They're like, this isn't working. My sales are down. And they need to understand, they need to go through a process to understand what the problem is. And then you move them into what is the solution? I love that you have those sequences in that order. I do the same thing in a different way in offers. Like what kind of offer makes sense when people are only symptom aware? How do you move them to that next, like close that loop? And then you're opening a new loop. So what's the solution? So you have to find that offer. So I love that. It really ties together well. And I think it's something that a lot of people don't think about when you're not in like the marketing sales world and you're more of a consultant or a coach where you're like, I'm good at this thing. They don't think about the psychology of where people are at each phase of that sales process. So love that. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 35:04

Jared. And I love how you say it's like it's like closing the loop before you move on to the next one.

SPEAKER_00: 35:08

Yeah, which is another writing term. Close the loop.

SPEAKER_01: 35:12

Yes, I love, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Their expertise isn't necessarily that. And I mean for me, I come from very much like a teaching lens because I was a teacher for 15 years and I come from the education world. And so to me, like marketing and selling is like, oh, teachers are really good marketers and sellers because every day they're in there.

SPEAKER_00: 35:38

Yeah, you have to convince the students to do the thing and tell explain why it's important and why they would want it.

SPEAKER_01: 35:44

Exactly. Yeah. And it's almost like, and that I feel like that's another big piece of it, is that um a lot of a lot of uh the coaches who and entrepreneurs who come to me are in that like convincing, they're in that convincing um, what do you call it? Uh stage stage. So they feel like they're kind they they gets there's they're just they're tired because they're like, I'm constantly trying to convince people and no one's like no one's doing anything. And I I like to say like, and it goes back to what you said about like the symptoms. It's like, okay, you're you're approaching your writing like a lawyer and you're on the stands and you're trying so hard to convince the judge and the jury of whatever it is. It's tiring because like nothing is happening. Versus like you're you're like right like you're a doctor, like you're you know what the symptoms are. You you can see that in your clients, and now you're you're creating it like a treatment plan for them. That's that's what you're waiting for.

SPEAKER_00: 36:50

That's the perfect way to put it. Because they are not your expert, they just know what they're feeling.

SPEAKER_01: 36:57

Yeah, yeah. So it just it then it doesn't feel like this, like this energy of like you gotta work with me, come and work with me. It's this is what you need to do. It's more like, hey, I see what's going on, and I'm gonna show I'm gonna show you like what what's the root causes, and then here's this is the solution. This is what I can offer you. And just with the shift in that energy, they they start to get more engagement.

SPEAKER_00: 37:23

Yeah, and a lot of times, like if they are doing so much convincing, then they are probably attracting at the very top of the level of the funnel. So they are attracting people who are only symptom aware instead of like hand raisers that are like, okay, this is my problem. I understand it. And it really you have to be attracting at all of those levels to keep your pipeline full.

SPEAKER_01: 37:52

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, the different levels.

SPEAKER_00: 37:55

Yes. Okay, this was awesome. I had so much fun. Is there anything else that you want the audience to know before we wrap up?

SPEAKER_01: 38:06

Um I would say that like talking about all these things for me is like it's really fun. And I really obviously very much enjoy talking about it. But it can feel very overwhelming for people to suddenly be like, gosh, I have to use stories. I I have to like, oh my gosh, I have to like it's it's like too much. And um I just I would like to say like there are no like have-to's or shoulds. Like anytime there's a should, just reflect on why you think it's a should. Um, and then either reframe it or like, no, you don't need to do it. Um, so just really be aware of that because I know as entrepreneurs, we can get into this cycle, the hamster wheel cycle, and we're just like gonna add on more and more and more until you're just like exhausted and on the floor. And so this is something that I I I have been also on my own journey on is like, how do we simplify? So if you're hearing all this and you're feeling overwhelmed, like, oh my gosh, this is all too much, like just simplify and just take the one, just take the one step, take the one nugget that you got from here and just go with that. And then you can always go and build from there, but first just like start with that one step.

SPEAKER_00: 39:26

Yeah, that I like that. That's really helpful because it can be overwhelming when you're hearing all this advice.

SPEAKER_01: 39:33

Like that seems over my head, especially I feel like storytelling can feel so nebulous to someone who doesn't understand it, who isn't immersed in it when it's yeah, yeah, it doesn't have to be a skill, it's definitely a skill to learn, and that's the the whole cake thing, it's like you're seeing yourself as a professional baker in your business, and we gotta just start with basics, start with the basics, and at some point you're gonna get to that point where okay, you got the you got the whole cake, you have all the the layers in there.

SPEAKER_00: 40:12

Yes, yes. Um, and before like the closing thought I just want people to take away is I have a client who is a VC, and they have told me a thousand times in just conversation that the thing that separates startups that thrive and ones that just fall apart is storytelling. And it's something that honestly surprised me. He was like the stories that they tell and bringing people like investors, users of their products along on their journey and making them care is the thing that turns them into unicorns. So this skill set even works from like these people who are they spend their money investing in in other companies. They even see the value of storytelling in business, which I found super interesting. I was like, I'm gonna write that down. I'm gonna tell everybody you said that.

SPEAKER_01: 41:25

That's so good. I love that. I I a hundred percent agree that yeah, storytelling has just so many different purposes besides what we had we had talked about. Like there's so many layers to it. That's like the first things that we've done as humans is storytelling.

SPEAKER_00: 41:45

Yeah, that's true. Um, how can people work with you and find you online?

SPEAKER_01: 41:52

Sure, yeah. They can find me on my website, which is deskplantcreatives.com. That is my uh my business name. Uh, and then from there you can it can go look around. Uh, I have my free email storytelling guide on there too. And one of the best ways right now uh to work with me is through my copy coaching program, Inbox to Impact. And that's where I'm really uh teaching and coaching and cut and consulting like all wrapped in into one. Um, so that you can really write emails that are open worthy, that get that engagement, that get more clicks. Um and it really is it's a skill and a strategy that that you can learn along the way. Uh so yeah, the my program is also on my website, Discipline Creative Ask Com. Uh I'm most active in my own email community. Uh so if you download one of my uh free guides, you'll also join my email community. And then also on LinkedIn, that is my pseudoactive in the messages there. Uh you can always DM me there in LinkedIn. Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn. My name is Joanne Homestead. And then you can also look up Joanne Humpstead copywriter, but I am pretty sure I'm still the only Joanne Homestead on LinkedIn. That's convenient.

SPEAKER_00: 43:28

I can have to use my middle name for everything. I have the most generic name. You love all things tiny marketing. Head down to the show notes page and sign up for the wait list to join the Tiny Marketing Club, where you get to work one-on-one with me with trainings, feedback, and pop-up coaching that will help you scale your marketing as a B2B service business. So I'll see you over in the club.