Ep 159: Relationship Rhythms: A Simple System To Grow A B2B Network Without Cold Pitching | Jessica Lackey

We break down a simple framework for growing a B2B network without spam: expand into the right communities, deepen ties without more calls, and invite people closer with specific five-minute asks. Clear systems, steady cadence, and trust-first behavior turn goodwill into predictable revenue.

• the three seasons of growth: expand, deepen, invite
• how to spot season changes in your pipeline
• deepening without Zoom: comments, spotlights, intros, resources
• making small, specific asks that get a yes
• blocking a weekly sacred sales hour for five touches
• prioritizing past clients, referrers, superconnectors, supersharers
• joining one new niche community per quarter
• right-sizing asks to relationship trust levels
• avoiding vague referrals with researched introductions
• using light tools to avoid outreach overwhelm

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Meet Jessica Lackey -
**Jessica Lackey** is the founder of Deeper Foundations, a consulting and training firm that helps expertise-based business owners grow and scale sustainable companies rooted in stronger business foundations. She brings a unique blend of corporate expertise and soulful business building, drawing on an MBA from Harvard Business School, a coaching certification from iPEC, and experience at McKinsey & Company and Nike, Inc. Jessica has supported over 200 entrepreneurs through her programs, blending systems thinking, operational rigor, and deep values alignment. She lives in Charlotte, North Carolina, with her husband.

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Chapters

• 1:37 Welcome And Episode Setup
• 1:58 Defining Relationship Rhythms
• 3:39 The Three Seasons: Expand, Deepen, Invite
• 7:23 Deepening Without More Zoom Calls
• 10:45 Making The Ask Specific And Small
• 15:22 Systemizing Outreach Without Burnout
• 18:28 Who To Track: Clients, Referrers, Superconnectors
• 22:11 Action Steps For Each Season
• 26:12 Warm-Up, Trust, And Non-Pushy Prospecting
• 29:09 Book, Program, And Practical Resources
• 32:39 Tiny Marketing Club Invitation And Closing

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:50

Podcast that helps B2B service businesses do more with less. Learn lean, actionable, organic marketing strategies you can implement today. No fluff, just powerful growth tactics at work. Ready to scale smarter? Hit that subscribe button and start growing your business with tiny marketing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11

Hello, my name is Jessica Lackey. I'm the founder of Deeper Foundations, a consultancy helping experts implement the foundations for sustainable growth and scale.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21

Yes. So we had a pre-call and you were telling me about relationship rhythms. And I feel like it's probably pretty close to what I do. And I'm dying to hear what this is from your point of view. So can you describe what relationship rhythms are? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:45

So it's the systematic approach to build, engage, and invite people within your network. A lot of relationship building happens when we're not in sales mode, it happens intuitively. We're just like we, you know, send birthday cards, we send, you know, we send mail, we invite people, we ask them to do things. But whenever we get into sales mode, it feels challenging, it feels hard, it feels like I don't wanna. So relationship rhythms is a structured approach to build your network, build those relationships, and really starts to outline the invisible labor that happens when you build relationships.

SPEAKER_00: 2:28

Okay. Um, I'm intrigued. So that's kind of what I talk about in that like what we're doing here, especially when you like hate sales, it's you're building relationships at scale. You're just making friends, and sometimes those friends become clients. So can you walk me through what those rhythms look like?

SPEAKER_01: 2:52

Yeah. So, you know, when we're trying to build our network, we are expanding our network, talking to people we don't know. We are deepening the relationship with the people that we do know, and then we are inviting people in closer. So we don't just do this with clients, we do this with collaborators and connectors. Because, you know, when we one of the ways to get in front of uh, you know, get new clients is to get in front of other people's audiences. But if people don't know you, if people are kind of like, oh, I see you on the internet, like they're not going to be like, oh, let's collaborate. Let me use my platform to spotlight someone who I don't know very well, right? We have to build that relationship. Yeah. This is it's making the explicit, you know, making the implicit rather explicit, which is like you have to meet them, then you have to become friendly, and then you have to make the ask. And by breaking it down into those phases, it becomes uh people can be like, oh, I'm in a season of deepening, I'm in a season of expansion, I'm in a season of inviting. And those are by putting names on it, it makes it clear what we're trying to do here versus just like, let's get a coffee chat together.

SPEAKER_00: 4:03

Yeah. Okay. Can you walk me through those seasons and how you would even identify them for yourself? Yeah. So the expand season.

SPEAKER_01: 4:14

So the this is when you figure out that you've been talking to kind of the same 50 people for like a couple of years now. You're like, all right, the same people are coming to my events, the same people are the ones I'm following up with, the referrals are coming from the same people. And at some point, you're gonna tap out your network. So expand season is a season of like, I'm going to get to know different people. I'm going to ex, you know, clearly put myself in new communities. I'm going to maybe DM some people on LinkedIn. I'm going to like a make a concerted effort to get outside my existing network. Yeah. Deepening is the season where you are building those relationships. And again, most people, when we think of deepening, particularly with like clients, you're like, oh, let me check in. How are you doing? But deepening doesn't have to just be like, hey, let's get on a Zoom call and catch up. This can be demonstrating your authority. It can be offering to help when this is something. It can make connections for them. There's lots of ways that don't require a Zoom call to demonstrate to people that you're paying attention and you care about them.

SPEAKER_00: 5:18

That's good. That's good. People are so tired of being on calls anymore. And that's probably the biggest pushback I get from clients is like, I don't want to be on calls. I'm like, yeah, calls make you money. They do.

SPEAKER_01: 5:32

But a lot of times, you know, I, you know, I've made money. I've sold, you know, lots of things to people who I'm not on calls with, but when they post something on LinkedIn, I comment on it, I'm go out of my way to make a connection for them. I go out of my way to spotlight them in my newsletter when they didn't ask for it. And they're like, oh my God, you put my stuff in your newsletter. That counts as deepening the relationship, even though it didn't require me getting on a call. That makes total sense. And then there's inviting. How many of your people, you know, they build relationships, they add value, they serve people, but they never make the ask. And the ask doesn't have to be let's work together, although sometimes it should be and it can be, but sometimes the ask is just moving them a little closer to you, asking for feedback, asking them for a connection, you know, asking them to, you know, asking to collaborate on something together. We, you know, when we have planted seeds, we have to, you know, use what we planted every once in a while. Otherwise, people don't know how to be of service to you. And people love being of service. Actually, that's, you know, when when we don't ask our neighbor for a cup of sugar, then our neighbor doesn't know that it's okay for them to ask for a cup of sugar. They don't know that it's good for them to like, it doesn't strengthen the bonds. And we try to pretend like we can do it all ourselves. So asking for little things makes it easier for everyone to ask for the big thing.

SPEAKER_00: 6:58

That is something my husband and I talk about all the time because we both have such a hard time asking for help. And we have to remind each other like that's how you build relationships. Like, that's how you build a deeper relationship is being vulnerable and allowing other people to feel comfortable being vulnerable with you.

unknown: 7:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 7:19

And a lot of times people are like, Well, I asked for referral. I'm like, well, one, no one just like thinks of people to refer to you when you say, Do you know anyone that wants to work to me? But two, like, help help them help you by doing the emotional and physical mental labor of who do you want to meet in their network? Do some research and say, Can you make an introduction to this person? versus, do you know someone that you can introduce me to? If someone says, Can you make an introduction to this person? I'm gonna do what I can. They're gonna send me a blurb, they're gonna tell me the context, I'll make the introduction. When someone says, Who do you know that could use me? I'm like, I I don't know. If something comes to mind, I'll think of it. So don't just ask for an introduction, ask for the one you want.

SPEAKER_00: 8:04

That is such good advice. That is such good advice. Like all they'd have to do is go and see who you interact with or who you've connected with on LinkedIn to be able to come up with that. It's so specific. It I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 8:20

You know how at the end of every Zoom copy chat, someone says, Oh, how can I help? Yes, every single one. Be prepared with something that's super small they can do for you. If you're like, hey, I'm hosting a workshop, can you put it in your newsletter? Or, hey, I'd like to get some traction on this LinkedIn post. Can you comment on it or say something insightful about it? People give people something to actually help you with that doesn't take more than five minutes of their time that they can actually help you with because then you've closed the loop in a way that makes them feel good. Like they actually could help you. It's something simple. So you know they're gonna ask you, they're not gonna have a client for you right away. Um, they might not want to collaborate with you because they don't know you very well. But when they say, How can I help? be prepared with a way that they can help you with something short, sweet, and small.

SPEAKER_00: 9:16

Yes. I love how specific you are too. Like it's such a specific ask that you have. And a lot of the asks that you came up with as examples were really kind of gives because you were giving them um like a platform or a spotlight. Like if you ask them to be, like if you could supply a quote for this article as an example, you're also getting that backlink and you're getting that extra visibility. So it's a little, it's a little bit of a give, too.

SPEAKER_01: 9:49

We we always want to serve, and people just people are so busy. People are just inundated with information. If you can make it simple for people to help you, they will. They want to help you. And so that's where having a system, a structured system of saying, you know, what season am I in? Am I in an expand season, a deepen season, an inviting season? Grant, you do all these things naturally in a season. Like you're not gonna be like, oh, I'm gonna spend an entire quarter just talking to new people. But yeah, you might over-index on like, let's talk to, let's talk to new people, let's join some new communities, let's make some, you know, new connections. I'm in a book launch season right now, so I'm going to go back to everyone who podcasts I've been on, whose work I've spotlighted, whose relationships I've built, and said, Hey, can you put my book in your newsletter? Like I'm going back to everybody because it's been a couple of years where I haven't really tapped into those relationships. And people are like, Oh my God, you've been so supportive of me over the last couple of years. Of course, how can I help you? And I can say, here's how you can help me. So I'm specific. Because I think we have to be direct, not pushy, not salesy, but we have to be specific because, you know, if they can't do what you're asking in like five minutes, you know, what's the chances that they're gonna get distracted by something else and not do it? Like a hundred percent because all the time. We're we're really, really busy right now. And so I think that's where having a system for staying in touch with people is about kind of bite-sizing things so that they're not so intimidating for anybody.

SPEAKER_00: 12:28

Yeah, yeah. I yeah, I I currently have a guilt in me because someone asked me to do something and then I got COVID and I forgot. It never happened and it missed the deadline. But if it was like just like one of those bite-sized favors, I would have just done it that second.

SPEAKER_01: 12:48

Yeah, and I think this is where, again, going back to that invisible labor, um, you know, this is one of the things people are like, oh, let me do a hundred touch challenge or let me do one email a week to your one email a day to people to build my network. Well, if you send out a hundred emails for, you know, outreach emails, you know you're gonna get like 50 back kind of quickly. Do you have the time to respond to all the pings you sent? Do you have time to pong? Do you have time to follow up with people so that you actually kind of build that relationship and do something with what the conversation you started? Most people don't have dedicated time to send emails and send outreach and send cards, but they also don't have dedicated time to respond to these things. The worst thing you want to do is like start a bunch of conversations with people that then you get overwhelmed because you didn't block the time to respond to the conversation because then someone else is like, oh my God, they reached out and started a conversation with me and then they dropped it and didn't go anywhere. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 13:48

Yeah. Um, okay, I have a lot of questions, but I want to ask them organized. Um, so what you cued, like you teed me up for one specifically, though. How do you create a system where they don't, where this doesn't fall apart? Like, are you time blocking? Is it like the world's best CRM in the air table? What is a good system for this?

SPEAKER_01: 14:14

Really, I think that if you block an hour once a week in my program, we call it the Sacred Sales Hour. If you block an hour once a week and send five outreaches, generally speak that vary between past clients and present clients. Generally speaking, you're gonna hit your whole network in a year, which is fine. Because what is time, anyways, especially if you're staying top of mind with reasonably frequent LinkedIn posting and newsletters, it's not like they haven't seen you, you know. So you don't need to like follow up with people every, you know, every quarter. Cause generally speaking, you're probably in the orbit of a lot of people, anyways. People occasionally see your stuff. You're not, you know, completely out of, you know, out of sight, out of mind. If you are out of side, out of mind, I would address that. I would make sure you are not this shape. I would not uh stay where people literally don't see your name except for the one email a year you get. But this is where it's like, okay, you know, if you do five a week, five touches a week, and your network that you can stay in touch with is like 150-ish people. That's Dunbar's number. You're gonna hit your whole network in a year. You're gonna expand your network. There are some people you want to follow up with more regularly, past clients, prospects, those should be on a quarterly list. But, you know, your best referral partners probably every three to six months. But I don't think people need a super complicated CRM. I'm much more concerned with sending five emails a week than tracking who you sent them to because generally speaking, you're gonna hit everyone that matters if you commit to five a week, anyways.

SPEAKER_00: 15:40

Yeah. I did something like this little two Januaries ago. I did like a 30-day sprint of this. And um, I've talked about this a thousand times. So you've probably heard this story. Um, but I was able to close 94,000 within that 30-day period. And um I used Airtable to track it and boomerang. Those were my two best friends. It was an air table boomerang combo, and that's how I was able to keep up with the conversations and make sure that they didn't disappear.

SPEAKER_01: 16:18

Yeah. And I love I love that. If you are needing to get clients in the door, a kind of burst mode like what you're talking about, hugely relevant, hugely helpful, probably want to system for that. But a lot of people are like, the tech is overwhelming. They're not really, and I'm like, I don't care how you send, just you know, don't send like if you if you're kind of in maintenance mode with your business right now, just send five emails a week and do it in one block a time and just come back to that on a regular basis. Then it's not too many emails, it's not too few emails. You stay in the rhythm of it. And if you don't love tech, you don't need to love tech. In order, your goal is just to stay in motion, stay in rhythm and notice. Have I been talking to just the same people? Have I done any asking lately? It's more of like a notification noticing of the rhythms versus the specificity of when you, I mean, I don't know about you, but if someone's not in my sales pipeline and I get a notification like in my CRM to tell them, tell them, tell me to follow up with them, I just ignore it. Sales pipeline, you need reminders. Yeah. Track that stuff super carefully with your sales pipeline, but just in your regular network, every time I get like a follow-up notification for someone, like, oh, you need to follow up with them, I just snooze and ignore it. I'm like, I'll get to it at some point. Oh, I'm a snoozer too. Yeah. So sales pipeline, follow up like a hawk.

unknown: 17:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:37

Your relationship pipeline, it's really just about rhythms and it's about being in motion and staying in the flow of it versus the specificity of, oh, when did I last talk to this person?

SPEAKER_00: 17:49

Yeah. Yeah. I I guess my fear would be like how do I know which people in my network? Like my network is big. How do I specify like who it is that makes sense to reach out to? Is there a specific list like past clients you mentioned before? Um maybe people that you worked with at a company before might be part of it. I don't know. Tell me, tell me what are your lists.

SPEAKER_01: 18:26

So you have your past and present clients. You have your prospects, those are on a list. You have the people that refer you business and the people where you've been on their platforms before and gotten you business. So, like between your past and present clients and the people that regularly send you business, you're, you know, somewhere in the probably 40 to 50 people list. And then you're kind of looking for like, who are like them that I can make relationships with? If these people send me referrals, who's someone similar to them that alt myself send me referrals? And if I get a lot of, you know, love from this community, how can I deepen relationships in the communities I'm already in? Right. We're, you know, we're not just trying to, we're really looking for the people that, you know, have altered have complimentary audiences, have proven that they have referred to us. We want to like continue to deepen the relationship with them instead of having to go super broad. We're like, you know, I I really feel especially, and you also want to be on lookup for super connectors. I don't know if you've covered this with your your audience.

SPEAKER_00: 19:25

I haven't, but please do because I love my I love my superconnectors.

SPEAKER_01: 19:30

There are people that are super, they're super connectors and super sharers. So the super sharers are the ones that tend to consume and share a lot of information. So if you're trying to get your, they're the ones that, you know, their audience expects maybe a couple links in a newsletter, or they do a lot of cross-promotion and people really like what they we they do. Superconnectors are the ones that are sort of like they know everybody. So, and they connect you to everybody freely. So you're probably a super connector within my sphere. I'm a bit of a super connector. And so you want to get to know them because getting to know them means that they're gonna get to know a lot of people. Um, like I have I have one bookkeeper who I refer, I think I've referred like seven clients to because of like how she does her bookkeeping. She loves Jessica. She loves it. And so, you know, if she's listening to this, which she's not, but um, you know, I should be getting gifts and I should be getting referrals back if I can. And I should, you know, like take care of the people that um that send you business because they're going to there are some of us in our profession, your profession, my profession. Like our job is to get to know people. So get to know the people whose job it is to get to know people.

SPEAKER_00: 20:43

Yeah, that is that's perfection. Um and you're right, my job is to know people at this point. It wasn't at the beginning, but it is now.

SPEAKER_01: 20:54

Yeah, and I think this it's it sounds transactional. And it sounds a little, oh, like, you know, I'm putting people in tears and lists. This is how networks operate, right? There's always so we're really just taking it from the abstract to the intuitive into something that can, like, you know, be something that lives on a calendar, can be something that lives in a spreadsheet. And once people get in the rhythm, so one of my clients, she um at the beginning of the year, she sent a Starbucks gift card for coffee um to every client. She works with inliteracy, so she works with schools. And so she couldn't necessarily drop coffee off at everyone's desk, although she did try. Um, but she sent it a valiant effort. Well, you know, some you know, the ones where it was in driving distance, she totally bought them coffee. And the ones that were out of state, she'd not bring them coffee. She got she got um two inquiries from that. Because it was past clients and it was, hey, here's the beginning of school, you know, have a cup of coffee on me. Here's the new year. And people are like, they it wasn't about her at all. It was only about them. They were pleased, they reached out and said, Oh, thank you so much. Oh, by the way, I've been meaning to talk to you. Thank you for the re you know, the excuse to reach out.

SPEAKER_00: 22:10

Yeah, I think that that's so you hit on a couple things. When I talk about my biz dev systems, I also get the feeling that people think like it's manipulative, it's transactional, but it's really not. It's just how I'm able to make relationships at scale. Like I even do some of this stuff with my friends just to make sure that I have touch points with like my friends that have moved across the country or whatever. Without a system, even those relationships would eventually fade.

SPEAKER_01: 22:43

Yeah, and and this is about noticing. Again, you know, not every invitation is going to be right for for you, not every way, you know, like some people are really good with expanding their network through cool DMs and some people aren't. You you have, but it's like you have to do, you have to meet new people, you have to stay in touch with the people you are in relationship with. It's probably a good idea to thank them and be of service on a, you know, in a wildly unscalable way as you're building your business. And then you have to make asks, um, more asks than you think. But again, they don't have to be salesy or pushy, but they do have to invite people to take a stepboard. And by giving language to it, people can really start to see oh, I can name a pattern and I can do something about that versus just like I need to network more.

SPEAKER_00: 23:33

Yeah. Yeah. Um, I love that you broke this down into like those seasons because I've never thought about it that way. So when I said, Well, I have a lot of questions, one of those questions was, what are some action steps we can take in each of those seasons that just like a listener could be like, okay, I gotta do this when I'm in that season.

SPEAKER_01: 23:58

Well, the expand season actually goes hand in hand with the ask season because you can ask your clients what conferences they're going to, what communities they're a part of, who else they follow, who else they read, which is an ask, which helps you expand your network. So and an easy ask. It's an easy ask, a thick ask. It's an easy, you're not like, you know, the question is where would I find more people like you? And what communities are you in? And then I would join those communities and don't just like join and then not, you know, meet people and DM people and be part of the conversations. And sure, you can't do that in like 20 places. So pick a season or pick a community, pick a network every season, pick a new place to spend some time and get to know some people. And again, it sounds a little transactional, but like rotate it. Don't just like be in one community, join like one new community a season and get to know people, and you would be surprised how quickly your network expands.

SPEAKER_00: 24:52

You are so that is the thing that I talk about the most is those niche communities are the easiest way to meet the right people because you can find the ones that are specifically like your ideal dream clients and go hang out there, make relationships there. But um, in that 30-day sprint I was telling you about, that was one of the things I did heavily and I tracked like which communities were building like strong relationships. And then I was able to just cut the ones that didn't and go more in on those. And then I, you know, would try a new one maybe the next quarter.

SPEAKER_01: 25:29

Yeah. It's like planting seeds. You're like, all right, I'm planting a garden. If I plant these seasons over here, that might not work. If I plant these seeds over here, it might bloom into like an amazing plant. And then I'm gonna like double down over there. Yeah. If you're deepening relationships, just really think about different ways to deepen relationships besides calls. So again, this could be making connections for people. I always like the double opt-in connection though, like ask both parties if they want to be connected. Um, send resources that you know would be interested, interesting to them. Could be your resource, could be their resource, like someone else's resource. Like, if I, you know, our podcast is gonna go out and I'm gonna send it a bunch of people and I'm gonna be like, hey, like I recorded this and I had you on my mind when I was doing it because you're in a season of inviting. Here's some big ideas. Um, and then curate your own events, not maybe online or things like that, but like have your own, have something to invite people to to come learn more. Huge. It's it's huge. Like, you know, let people know you enough. And then inviting again, we've talked about this a little bit, but um, you know, past clients, invite them to a conversation about what's next. Um, one of my someone I I follow online said, um, just because they might not work next with you, if you are the one that facilitates them to their goals, regardless of who it's with, they're gonna remember that. So, you know, you should always know what their 2026 projects are and how can you be helpful in getting them to their goals, regardless of whether that's working with you or not. Um, but again, the ask can be small, they should be specific, and they should be something that people can say yes to or no to without like a ton of thinking about it. But, you know, people say, Oh, would you like to do this collaboration? I'm like, Yes, I would, because I want to get in front of your audience, you want to get in front of my audience. Thank you for taking the time to ask, right? It's the people that ask for what they're looking for at the right size of the relationship trust level, they'll they'll get what they want.

SPEAKER_00: 27:37

Yeah, okay. I loved absolutely everything you said in this episode. I am probably going to also have this episode in the tiny marketing club as like bonus material in the biz dev section. It's that good. Like the thing that really stuck out to me is like people have a hard time understanding that when you're doing that, that give, when you're when you're so here, let me backwards. A couple of weeks ago, I had a podcast episode where I was talking about LinkedIn prospecting. And I talked about this warming up period and problem exploration. And the thing that really pissed people off, honestly, was like that they thought it would be a pitch when the problem exploration is really you're discovering what they have next or what challenge is happening. So you can give them a resource and build trust with them, whether that's you or someone else. Like that resource could be introducing them to someone else. It could be an asset that belongs to someone else. It's not necessarily you. And that doesn't mean that you won't turn into their contractor or consultant one day, but today isn't the day they need you. And I would pull people off.

SPEAKER_01: 29:03

Well, I will say um on LinkedIn, and this is just my perspective. If you ask me a hard question in the LinkedIn DMs, I will ignore you because I'm too I'm like, someone asked me a question. She's like, if you could snap your fingers and change one thing about your mindset, what would you change? And I'm like, I don't know. This is a hard question.

SPEAKER_00: 29:21

I would delete that. I would delete that. No, this would be like after you have built a relationship with them, that's when you start with the problem exploration conversations.

SPEAKER_01: 29:33

Yeah, but I I'm like, I I'm like, please don't make me think in my yeah, you know, in my DMs.

SPEAKER_00: 29:39

I've had that question too. Someone has asked me that.

SPEAKER_01: 29:42

Yeah, and I think like if you go in with the intention of being salesy, people people know it. But if you approach all your interactions with humanness, um, and again, move at the speed of trust, you know, you'll be fine. Yeah, I love that phrase.

SPEAKER_00: 30:01

I should name this episode that. Uh thank you so much for joining me. Can you tell us one about your book and two about your program?

SPEAKER_01: 30:12

So the book is called Leaving the Casino, Stop Betting on Tactics and Start Building a Business That Works. It's available on my site. Basically, all the advice we're given as in the entrepreneurial casino is designed for one type of business. And that might not be the business you want to run. So, how do we step away from the loud, shiny, flashy tactics and start building a business that works for us? So it's very practical, shockingly practical guide to some of the business decisions that you would make. And then the um program in my membership, the program, um, the sales program we talked about was called relationship rhythms. And we execute on that every week in my membership called the Deeper Foundations membership. We have sales sacred hour once a week.

SPEAKER_00: 30:57

Nice. Okay. I will have links. I was just looking over at your form to see if I have them already. I have deeperfoundations.com. So that is for your program?

SPEAKER_01: 31:12

That's for that's for kind of like the one stop shop for it all.

SPEAKER_00: 31:15

Okay. And then we have predictable revenue roadmap.com. That is about that.

SPEAKER_01: 31:21

Yeah, the predictable revenue roadmap is the kind of five steps to predictable revenue. One of those steps is routine outreach. But if you want to know the other four things that I see are problematic keeping people from um predictable revenue months, um, that's in the roadmap.

SPEAKER_00: 31:39

Awesome. This was such a good conversation. Thank you so much. She's also on LinkedIn. I have that here. So I will have all of These links in the show notes. And I hope we can continue this relationship. Speaking of relationship rhythms, because I just think you're brilliant and our uh ideas align. You love all things tiny marketing. Head down to the show notes page and sign up for the wait list to join the tiny marketing club where you get to work one-on-one with me with trainings, feedback, and pop up coaching that will help you scale your marketing as a B2B service business. So I'll see you over in the club.