Ep136: Recession-Proof Your B2B Business | Experts Melissa Armstrong, Peter Giordano III, & Jac White

The economic warning signs are everywhere, and if your accountant is anything like mine, they're already hitting the panic button. But before you slash your prices or cut your marketing budget, take a deep breath. This episode brings together a powerhouse panel of experts to help you not just survive but potentially thrive during economic uncertainty.

What if I told you that recessions actually make millionaires? It sounds counterintuitive, but when everyone else retreats, those who strategically advance can capture significant market share. Our panel dives into why discounting is the wrong move when your costs are increasing, and why marketing is the absolute last thing you should cut (spoiler: cutting marketing creates a 90-day countdown to pipeline drought).

We explore practical strategies for improving cash flow management, including shifting from monthly to weekly financial analysis, optimizing payment terms, and conducting strategic audits of your offers to identify what truly generates profit. You'll learn how to repackage your services into more digestible pieces without sacrificing value, and why this might be the perfect moment to actually raise prices by enhancing perceived value.

Perhaps most valuable is our discussion on maintaining strong customer relationships during uncertainty. Being the "steady hand" that guides clients through turbulent times isn't just good service—it's a competitive advantage that builds lasting loyalty and referrals.

Whether you're feeling the economic pinch already or preparing for what might come, these actionable strategies will help you build a more recession-resistant business. Subscribe now and join the Tiny Marketing community where we're helping B2B service providers do more with less—because sometimes the smallest, most focused actions create the biggest results.

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Chapters

• 1:34 Introduction to Tiny Marketing
• 1:57 Biggest Recession Mistakes
• 7:10 Where to Double Down vs Cut Back
• 18:46 Balancing Pricing and Flexibility
• 24:27 Cash Flow Management Strategies
• 27:32 Customer Experience as Competitive Advantage
• 33:22 Repackaging Offers for Current Economy
• 40:50 Improving Cash Flow Right Now
• 51:58 Keeping Sales Moving Forward
• 56:16 Long-Term Strategic Moves

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:47

Welcome to Tiny Marketing. This is Sarah Norblach, and this is a podcast that helps B2B service businesses do more with less. Learn lean, actionable, organic marketing strategies you can implement today. No fluff, just powerful growth tactics that work. Ready to scale smarter? Hit that subscribe button and start growing your business with tiny marketing.

Speaker 2: 1:10

Well, thank you guys for joining me today. Today we are talking about how to recession-proof your business, because we all see the news and hear. Actually, my own accountant was freaking out and I was like it's okay, chill, so let's get into it. First, I want to get into high level. What are the biggest mistakes that you see businesses making when the economy takes a downturn? Let's start with Melissa. Let's talk finance first.

Speaker 3: 1:44

Yeah. So what I hear a lot is I'm going to lower my prices so that I don't lose clients or I can get repeat or recurring business, in which, to me, it's mind blowing because at a time when your costs are going up, you need to increase your fees to reflect that, so that you can keep being sustainable. Right, you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot so that you can keep being sustainable. Right, you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot. So for me, I would say that's the biggest one that I am seeing right now.

Speaker 2: 2:18

Let's go straight to Peter and get your thoughts on that.

Speaker 4: 2:21

Well, yeah, I think this panicking ends up being what moves first, right, and pricing is an easy lever to do this right. It also ends up being like a representation of us, right and pricing is an easy lever to do this right. It also ends up being like a representation of us, right. This pricing is particularly how close we are to being the price setter or the delivery of services. I see this too. I see a panicking and I see the need to discount or I see the desire to move in a way that helps try to secure business. So panicking and pricing is the number one mistake that I see as well, the discount aspect makes me want to go straight to Jack.

Speaker 2: 3:03

So what is the biggest thing that you're seeing people doing right now? And I'm guessing discount is going to be among them.

Speaker 5: 3:11

Discounting is huge and also fear when there's any kind of like uncertainty or downturn in the economy. Like we're human beings, even though we're business owners and we're trying to project, you know, a certain level of confidence. We're human beings and we get nervous and afraid as well, and that's what I hear everybody saying. And there's like things that you can control and there's things that you can't control. And the things that you can't control are tariffs and like a recession, whether that happens or not. The things that you can control are your prices, the level of activity you're doing in your business and the type of activity you're doing in your business to try to continue to keep like your sales momentum going.

Speaker 5: 4:01

And one of the things I see people do is definitely discount. But I also see people really spend a lot of time and energy trying to like being worried about the things that they can't control, which is just humanity. But if you can kind of try to like put up as much of a shield as you can to that and really focus on the things that you can control, like your sales activities, running your business the way you know how to run it you'll see the sales momentum continue to go. But it's a scary time, it's natural to sort of freeze up a little bit. Let yourself take that moment and then take a deep breath and keep moving forward.

Speaker 2: 4:41

Yeah, I'm going to jump off from that, because the thing that I see most often is people shutting down their marketing in. Is people shutting down their marketing Right, not investing? Yeah, this isn't a profit center when it's what drives those sales conversations and without it, you're extending your sales process. Yeah, it will take 18 months possibly for you to close a B2B sale when you don't have marketing and they don't realize who you are or the value that you have, and it's the first thing that shut down I've seen with, like the past 20 years. It's the first thing that that business has shut down.

Speaker 5: 5:23

Yeah, I've seen that too, and even when not even small companies like ours, but big companies whenever there's a downturn, marketing or content marketing is always like the first departments that get budgets cut and layoffs, and I think it's like just such a foolish mistake as well.

Speaker 2: 5:41

Yeah, it's short-sighted. I have said this a million times, but I've always seen like a 90-day turnaround. If you shut off your marketing within 90 days turnaround. If you shut off your marketing within 90 days, your sales pipeline usually shuts off too and you're creating your own downturn by doing that. The next thing I want to get into is in this tighter economy, where should businesses double down and where should they cut back? Should they cut back? So let's talk double down first and then ease into the cutback.

Speaker 5: 6:23

So, jack, let's start with you. Yeah, this is when I think doing reviews on your business and understanding, like, what's working and what are the core pieces of your business that drive revenue and drive profit in your business is really important, because when there are downturns or when things do feel uncertain, the best thing I think you can do is double down on the things that are working. So, if you know that certain marketing right to your point, sarah certain marketing vehicles or activities, yes, maybe cost money, but that is what ultimately brings leads into your pipeline that you are able to convert I would absolutely not be cutting those things. I would be like holding tightly to that budget and making sure that you do it.

Speaker 5: 7:08

Sales activities in general you mentioned 90 days to build a sales pipeline. Yeah, not pumping the brakes on any of the sales activities or marketing activities that lead into sales, I would not do. I would continue to do all of that stuff because we're not naive to think that everything is going to be the same. It may be harder to close deals or to bring that revenue in, so the last thing you want to do is take the foot off the gas on the things that drive that revenue.

Speaker 2: 7:42

Yeah, I think I just want to highlight the audit. We just talked about this, melissa, in the minimum viable tech stack workshop that I did. You want to do an audit and see where your leads are coming from, where your referral partners are coming from, and double down on those elements, the ones that you know are driving sales. That everyone needs to keep in mind is that when everyone else is shutting down their marketing, if you don't, you're going to stand out even more. We have heard a million times that recessions make millionaires and it's because of this, because other people are retreating and the smart people are doubling down instead. So, melissa, peter, do you guys have anything else that you want to talk about in terms of doubling down? Because, melissa, I really do. You guys have anything else that you want to talk about in terms of doubling down? Because, melissa, I really want to hear about your cutting.

Speaker 4: 8:37

Yeah, before we get into the cutting then I'll go and follow Jack then. So that way it's a stream. I look at pricing right. Look, perceived value gets totally recalibrated and we know that price is perceived value right. And so, even though we want to discount or we want to reduce that price, I actually have a little bit of a differing opinion, which is this might be a moment to actually look at your business and see where you can raise the price or where you can improve certain areas. Because this is how I look at it If you want to raise prices, there's only really three levers, because you cannot raise prices directly and just be done.

Speaker 4: 9:15

You have to kind of raise the things around it for price to actually be impacted so you can really improve the outcomes in which you provide. Typically, that's like value, like people will think about the word value, but I really want to stress like find ways in which you can improve value to your existing clientele. Go to them and say what's working, like what's working for you, and if it's hey, you're really I really appreciate how fast you are, then go faster. Like look for those things that are actually working, Double down with existing clients and finding ways. So it's like. So don't just automatically discount in that sense. So find ways to improve the outcomes.

Speaker 4: 9:50

The other is right is change the perception right. How we've just recalibrated prices. Find ways in which you can recalibrate the perception back. Is it? Are you investing in your replacement value or are you improving those outcomes, like I said the first time around? But the third one I actually want to talk about is changing your buyer. Now, like you might hear that and say like total new ICP, but in reality we are always moving up market in a sense, whether we're improving our buyer or improving our market or improving the stakes, higher stakes this might be an opportunity to find a newer version of a buyer, because if the buyer themselves might be looking down market, you might be able to capture a little bit of that nuance when you move up market, because they're taking a risk and you might be taking a risk and if you have a long-term view on your business, this might be a way in which you can start to reposition your business from a pricing perspective to a new level and to a new standard.

Speaker 5: 11:48

I feel like I get smarter every time I have a conversation with Peter.

Speaker 2: 11:53

Jack was in the pricing watch part.

Speaker 4: 11:57

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 11:59

Jack Melissa. What are your thoughts?

Speaker 3: 12:04

I was having a conversation with a client recently and we were talking about how there were some positions his team was looking to fill, and one position that came up was community outreach, so part of business development, and he said that is one that we definitely cannot fill right now. He walked me through the other ones and then I said, okay, let's revisit that conversation because your team has identified that there is an opportunity or a need for business development and maybe your financials can't justify hiring a new person to go out there into the community and everything that entails tails. But what about rethinking this strategy? So what can you do differently to leverage the resources that you already have and you're not adding additional costs? Right, like my entire marketing is based on social media. You know this, and that is very low cost, and so I think at this time is thinking about what you can cost. So don't travel, you don't need to go to a conference where you need to pay for a hotel and meals and flights and all of that. Maybe find something that your team can do remotely so that you can keep them certified, educated and all of that good stuff, and it still like keeps the morale up, but it probably slashes that cost in half, and then be intentional about the other areas where you need to double down.

Speaker 3: 13:43

I think I am the perfect example. I started zero clients, a very limited budget of money that I was putting in. The thing that I invested in was marketing, because I needed to accelerate that timeline, because I did not have a 12-month runway to figure this out. I needed to shorten that. I think the same principle applies here.

Speaker 3: 14:07

You have to get scrappy, you have to get intentional, um, and if you want cut, maybe look at the efficiency of your current operations. So it's like at home we have a subscription to netflix and peacock and math and all of these streaming platforms, but you know there's one or two that you rarely log into, but you're still paying for them, right? Because whatever, it's $11 a month, it's $12 a month, so you keep paying for it. Well, now it's a time to look into your internal resources and the things where you're spending money that you really shouldn't be because you don't meet them. And how can you reconfigure your teams to make them work smarter, not harder, and focus on the things that are moving the needle and not just doing work, because you know, not just not to stay busy is what I mean.

Speaker 2: 15:07

Yeah, it really comes down to auditing your offers, seeing what's making you the most profit and cutting the things that don't matter so you're not spending money on tools or whatever that you might've needed to be able to execute that offer before. Yeah, I do that a lot. I am constantly going through and like does this even make sense? Nobody cares that much about this Cut. I'm a big fan of cutting.

Speaker 4: 15:38

Yeah, there's a. I'm going to just kind of go on top of that, which is sometimes it's good to do spring cleaning right Of your business, right. This is a forced spring cleaning in a sense right, and so what?

Speaker 4: 15:50

one other way in which you can go about doing this is I don't know if it's a mindset shift, but ask yourself the questions like what do I wish would have already been done for me in this moment? Right, so that you can basically build durability in your architecture. Like moving forward, Because in reality, like some businesses will fail, right, Some will succeed in a sense. And it's like what are the things that you need to do in order to sustain here, so that you can succeed in the future and succeed the next time that this comes around? Because we know that this is a market right, these are cycles. This isn't a surprise to anyone.

Speaker 2: 16:25

Yeah, I'm glad that you said that. I have said that many times where I'm like we've seen this story. We have had cycles like this before and it always works out fine. The world has not ended. That leads into the next one. So how do you balance holding your price point versus offering discounts or flexible terms when your clients are coming to you and saying they can't afford you anymore, or your prospects are coming to you and saying, well, that's out of my range right now?

Speaker 4: 16:59

I feel like I have to say something first, which is, while I've started a lot of this conversation about being a little bit more aggressive, like, in a sense, I don't hold the line is also don't be reckless. Like I understand that there are times where you do have to make moves, if they are strategic in the short term in order to sustain, to continue for the long term. And so when it comes to pricing, and one of these things is there are other factors like terms or methods, or you can change the relationship. For example is I'm not going to say this is what you should do, but if there is a way in which you can change the compensation format from just say hourly to performance pay, right, it's like you bet on yourself to basically say well, instead of you seeing me as a cost, here's a way in which you could see me as an investment and if we hit this number, then you have enough cashflow to support me and I will. I will basically bet on myself.

Speaker 4: 17:56

I'm not saying to do that, but that is one method in which you can get a little bit more creative with your finance or creative with your pricing structures in a time that does demand a little bit of change, more of consider it adaptive pricing being able to price the same service multiple different ways, depending upon the market or depending on the outcome. So that is a little bit. One way that you could go about it is to find a little bit more of a creative approach could go about it is to find a little bit more of a creative approach.

Speaker 2: 18:23

Yeah, I want to jump on that train of thought. I'm working with a client right now who's nervous about this. So what we did is we broke down her offer into milestones, so that someone just had to say yes to one milestone and then they say yes to the next milestone and that makes it more affordable and they're getting a little win before they move on to the next one. So they get the complete offer once they go through each of those milestones, but it's more biteable. It's easier to say yes to that. Jeff, what's yours?

Speaker 5: 18:57

Yeah, I also think in times like this, finding out what your prospect really values out of what you do and pumping that up a bit. So, instead of jumping to discounting the price, try to bump up the value that they get. So that might be a little extra time with you or a digital download or something that, yes, may eat into your profit margin. It's potentially something you would have sold, or it's still like trading time for money. But I think in times like these to Peter's point, like getting creative about kind of how you package and sell, and sometimes you need to just offer a little bit more to help people get over the hump when it feels really scary and I am not a fan of discounting in general there are times, if I'm launching something new, that I'll give like a special price to people who you know join early and give me feedback.

Speaker 5: 20:03

Yeah, exactly, but in general I'm not a fan of discounting, but I will give more if that's what somebody needs to get them over the hump within a range. Right, I'm not going to like give them everything, and so that's something that you can do and you can control. So, if you know, I have a group membership program if one-on-one time is really important to someone, I can throw in a one-on-one session to get them to join the membership the sales circle. If you know something else is really important to them, I can throw in like a little customization of that in order to get them there without discounting the price. So think of all of the assets that you have at your disposal. Yourself, being an asset, understand what your prospect is really valuing. If you have a great sales process, that should be really clear to you. And then you have a bunch of levers that you can kind of push and pull to get them where they need to be, to say yes.

Speaker 2: 21:07

Yeah, that is a really good point. So, like, if you have a gateway offer, a bridge offer, something like that, then you fully understand what is important to them, where they're stuck and what they need to get over it, and that allows you to pick really strategic bonuses to be able to convert them if they're like right on the edge, like oh no. Yeah, melissa, my next question is specifically for you. But do you have anything you wanted to add to this one? I do.

Speaker 3: 21:35

I think this is a good time to think about being flexible. So don't flash your prices, don't do a discount. Add some value, break it down into a more digestible piece of the offer and then be flexible on your payment terms. By no means so. For example, my clients. They pay at the beginning of the month. It's on auto pay. That's a non-negotiable for me.

Speaker 3: 22:03

But, for example, some people will not accept credit card payments because they don't want to incur the fees, and I think they're missing out on that, because that gives the opportunity to the buyer to float their cash and still be able to hire you for your service that they need, and so they get the opportunity to finance it. But you're not doing the financing for them. And if you're smart about the pricing, you can add a cushion there so that you're still getting paid the amount that you wanted to get paid originally, but you're covering those potential fees. Or you can be transparent about it and add those fees on top to the invoice and let the person decide. And what I have found is that a lot of people will say, yeah, just set it on auto pay. Here's my credit card number, I'll pay the fee because it's convenient or because I get miles, I can just set it up and not have to think about it, or because they need the cash.

Speaker 2: 23:08

Yeah, that's a good point and, like Dubsado Squarespace, a lot of different companies have that buy now, pay later option. That is available now, where you're still getting that lump sum, but they can pay over time if you're doing project-based, for example. Okay, so my finance question when revenue is unpredictable, what key metrics should business owners really be looking at?

Speaker 3: 23:35

So this is a time for people to really hone in their cash flow management. So in times of abundance, you're probably looking at your cash flow month over month. You know, do I have enough money to cover payroll, if that's something that you have to pay my bills and whatnot? I am seeing more and more my clients asking me to look at their cash flow weekly, and that is a smart thing to do. You want to make sure that you're being smart and you want to collect up front on the first of the month, but whenever possible, you want to pay on the very, very last day. You have to pay right. It just, it is what it is.

Speaker 3: 24:18

And so for small businesses like ours, there probably won't be a lot of those bills where you can delay the payment. Right, because we're usually the type of providers that will spend an invoice and some people will have, you know, net seven, net 30, net 15, whatever. But if you do have those, push it to that net 30 or net 15 or net 7. For bigger clients that I sometimes work with, it can come to a point where you have to decide we're paying everybody net 30. It doesn't matter what the due date is, because we need to prioritize our payroll, we need to prioritize our fractional advisors and things like that. But looking at that and going through that exercise week over week is going to help you pivot in a timely manner, rather than waiting an entire month and see that your runway is now 30 days instead of 40 or 50 that you had, you know, 30 days ago.

Speaker 2: 25:23

Yeah, that is a really good point and all of my bigger clients they do exactly that. Doesn't matter when the due date is, they're going to pay when they pay.

Speaker 3: 25:33

Right.

Speaker 2: 25:35

Okay, so let's talk about customer experience, and this is probably going to be looking at all of your experience as service providers. More than anything, we don't have a customer experience expert here today, but how does it affect your role during a downturn? So how can businesses use customer experience as a competitive advantage? Anybody have any thoughts on that?

Speaker 3: 26:04

Steady hand, steady hand. That's what works for me. No, seriously, it's creating a space in moments like this where you're holding it together for your client. You're going through some of these anxieties and questions and we're all living in the same world, we hope. But as a professional, as a consultant, you have to be in there with them. You have to be thinking critically the entire time.

Speaker 3: 26:36

I'm not just reconciling their bank accounts. I need to wear my consultant hat every single day and treat this as if it were my business, my problem. I'm in it with them With numbers. I can provide that. So, hey, here's the reality, right? Often it's like the budget oh my God, we're so under budget. Okay, let's understand why. Let's look at these numbers. Well, yeah, you were overly ambitious and optimistic a year ago when you set up this budget. Of course, it's going to look abysmal now, but if you look at the numbers this other way, maybe your sales are going up. You know you have more customers now, and so it's just having that critical mindset and like, again, keeping a steady hand to walk them through it.

Speaker 2: 27:26

Yeah, I think that being a service provider also means a little bit being a business therapist. You have to help people a lot with their anxieties around their business. It's super personal.

Speaker 5: 27:39

Yeah, yeah, and I think acknowledging the moment that we're in goes a long way to both of your points.

Speaker 5: 27:45

It's like actually saying like I know it feels crazy right now, I know it feels out of control, but this is what we do, and having a good customer experience, user experience, onboarding, offboarding all of that is important, no matter what is going on in the economy. Just to let you know like that will make or break whether your clients stay with you, refer you, you know, sign on and that starts at the very early times of the sales process, or even, like the marketing process, that customer experience it's not once they sign the contract. And so you know, now is maybe a good time if you haven't looked at your user flow and the experience to go in. We've talked about some really high touch. You know one-on-one ways to like create a good user experience. But in general, now is a good time to look at your user experience and your onboarding flow and all of that and make sure that it's relevant and make sure that it's the experience you would want to have if you're, you know, working with somebody else.

Speaker 2: 28:54

Yeah, that's a good point, Just like and helping them feel seen, yes, listening, acknowledging and solving the problem at hand, rather than feeling like this is what everybody gets. Peter, do you have anything you want to add?

Speaker 4: 29:13

We're all in the experience game. Part of services, part of what you're buying, is also an experience and I can't forget that. And and here's the here's the thing is, I might go a little bit and say there's a difference between so steady hand, like most of those, those perfect, perfect insert, right there I have to um, there's a difference between being nice and being kind. While it's always wonderful to both be nice and be kind, sometimes you need an advisor who's going to be kind to you and being kind might not be the nice thing to do, but it might be the honest thing.

Speaker 4: 29:53

And I really think that service providers, whether they're business therapists or advisors, in a sense is they are the individual who's outside the jar, right, all of you have heard my favorite saying, as of recently it's hard to read a label from inside the jar.

Speaker 4: 30:09

And now they're really inside the jar right now, right, because now everything seems to be a little bit of an emergency and everybody's got their guard up and all these things are just shining lights on cracks and crevices, right, and you don't want that crack to become a canyon incense. And so when I go with this whole nice and being kind is like if you are outside the jar and part of your duty and part of your belief and part of your principles is like you want to help people in their experience but you also want to help that business go. Be kind, like tell them, be honest, be true, be an advisor, and that's going to allow them to sustain and allow them to either improve their experience or improve their business. Right, be kind, be nice to, but focus on being kind and telling them the really important stuff so that they can shepherd forward or move forward and facilitate to the next level or the next version of their business and facilitate to the next level or the next version of their business.

Speaker 2: 31:08

Yeah, I think they're just during this, when anxiety is so high, being on top of that and validating their feelings and helping them through the things that are hurting them right now is more important than ever, and sometimes that means that you're going to spend a little extra time with clients than you would have before, but you know that's okay, because life is hard and we're all in this together. Okay, let's talk about offers. So I want to talk about right now. Should businesses be looking at and I kind of teased this earlier repackaging or repositioning. Actually, Peter also teased it. Their offer is in a down economy to make them more adaptable for how people feel right now, when money and time resistance are a big thing.

Speaker 5: 31:58

Absolutely yeah are a big thing. Absolutely yeah. I don't know if that was for anybody in particular, but a thousand percent. I think now is a great time to experiment with offers and pricing and positioning and sort of you know, get creative on how you do things. If there are certain module, if you're a service provider and you have a big high ticket service package that you offer, if there are things you can pull out and offer a taste of at a lower price point to get people to purchase from you and experience your service for the first time at a lower level.

Speaker 5: 32:39

I think it's a great time to test that and just sort of, you know, again, play around with how you package, how you price, certainly how you market, depending on what you do. Being able to sort of reflect what's going on in the world in your marketing message and like how what you do like resonates or solves a problem for today's market is incredibly impactful. People, if you're talking about, like the high days of everything's going great and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and like people are freaking out, like you're really missing the mark. So now is the time to sort of look at everything you're doing and make sure it reflects what're really missing the mark. So now is the time to sort of look at everything you're doing and make sure it reflects what's happening in the world.

Speaker 2: 33:25

It comes off as tone deaf if you're just pretending like you don't notice what's happening. It's like okay, yeah.

Speaker 5: 33:36

For all. You lose trust, like right away, and people want to work with people they trust. So if you're not addressing it, I think you're really missing opportunity.

Speaker 2: 33:46

Yeah, has anybody here recently repackaged or adjusted their offers to adapt?

Speaker 3: 33:54

No, I have expanded my audience. So, in an effort to support my community of solopreneur, small business and service providers, I recently launched an email series to talk about this and what people like us can do. Like us can do. This is the time where I have had the most buying into any sort of lead magnet and I got people emailing me back and saying how helpful it was or how much value it added, and so it has made me curious and excited for me to develop something that can help serve this community in a way that it's accessible to them and also helps my business with scalability.

Speaker 2: 34:48

Yeah, I mean, I have to say that you were on top of it. You were really quick to adapt and add this into your marketing on your LinkedIn. In this email series which I subscribe to, All of it was brilliant and timely and helpful, so I think you nailed it.

Speaker 3: 35:09

Honestly, jack and I are members of this very, very inclusive community, and this is the chatter that was going on in the community and it was like oh, my girls, my ODs, need my help right now. What can I do to support them? This is what I can do. That's where the inspiration came, and I think it goes to like keeping your pulse in what is happening around and like having that consultant mindset and that disposition to serve. You just have to be creative, right, but you have to pay attention to what's happening.

Speaker 2: 35:47

Yeah. Yeah, that's a huge thing is pay attention and make sure you're adapting. So I already talked about like repackaging your offers. I love, Jack, that you pointed out like just break off pieces of it that are the most impactful you really have to do. I do offer audits very regularly, Like what are the pieces that people actually care about? Can it stand alone without the other pieces? Can this take place in a shorter timeframe so they can get faster results at even a lower price, because they're only getting a piece of it? It just makes it more accessible too. Peter, do you have anything that you want to add to it, since you teased it out a little bit too?

Speaker 4: 36:32

Yeah, All right, I feel like I'm always repackaging and rechanging my offers. It doesn't matter, and I think that's just coming from practice now, like finally learning and realizing and paying attention to what people are saying. But so I let me add a little bit of context, for mine is I guess I sell more, I work more customized, premium, strategic work, right, so individuals who are selling selling that. So for me it's actually doubling down, using terms we used before in the discovery process and like actually focusing deeper into not just trying to take my offers and square, peg, round, hole them in a sense, which is like, and actually open up the whole surfacing instead of selling approach and like really just opening up the conversations to see what is the real problem, that the person or the prospect or even my existing client, that that they, that they really have like what is the true, fundamental, like most impactful.

Speaker 4: 37:33

If you have to choose one top priority, what really is it? And be comfortable, I know, be comfortable saying that my offer might not be the one that fits you right now and being able to hand them off or shepherd them off to somebody who I know that could, and so I know this is not directly answering that question. But this is an approach I've taken to a little bit of my offers, which is doubling down and leading more into the discovery process, to understand that there is more than just my offers that might fit and that I know that I have a community around me that their offers might fit or as I, as I work with them and so I think me, I've noticed myself leaning into this discovery phase, or surfacing phase, and looking more into that yeah, I think that I mean Jack can speak on this better, but I think that that is important for all sales conversations is willing to say I'm like girl, actually someone else would be better at this.

Speaker 2: 38:27

And here's that person being ready with that referral.

Speaker 5: 38:31

I totally agree with both. I don't have anything to add. I think you both said it perfectly.

Speaker 4: 38:37

I think this is where we need to have like a little mic drop emoji that just goes like this and drops.

Speaker 2: 38:43

It'll just have to be us miming it. Okay, melissa, this baby's for you. So cash flow we're going to get a little deeper into that, so it can make or break your business right now. So what are companies doing to improve their cash flow right now? What is something that they can adjust or tweak at the end of this week?

Speaker 3: 39:11

Yes, I would look at your product offering. I went through this exercise about a year and a half ago with a client where you know clients are used to shipping fees. We pay for them all the time when we shop online. But what other fees are particular to your business that maybe you have been eating up and not passing down to your customers? Now is the time to look at that and pass them down right. Now is the time to look at that and pass them down right. Um, depending on the industry, it can be a recycling fee. Um, as part of what you offer them, you know, it can be a fueling fee. Uh, there's just so many things and it will vary from business to business. But think about it.

Speaker 3: 39:53

So I am in the process of evaluating software. Uh, for the f&A component of my offering, where you mentioned this, peter, of like scaling up, like what I am seeing now is clients are maybe rethinking their payroll expenses and they need CFO level support, so I'm seeing a lot of demand for that. So it's forcing me into grow up into a different sector. So I'm thinking about this software. So one of the things that I am considering is it's not just what the product has to offer. But what is it going to be realistic for me right now as a cause that I can pass on to my customers? And what can I afford to? Maybe absorb for a year as an introductory offer? But then when I have to go back to them and say, ok, you got a free year, now I'm going to charge you for this software subscription. That it's not going to be too big of a hit, and every business model has something like that, and so I think that is going to be the lowest hanging fruit. And then, what can you upsell, even if it's like a small project, if you're in the service space, what is that add-on that you can offer them on top of what you're already doing? Nudge that client base that you have right now. It's going to cost you less because you don't have to go out there to find new clients. You don't have to spend time getting to know them, you already know them. So it's thinking creatively when you're working with them and seeing how else you can grow that business.

Speaker 3: 41:39

And then, going back to that flexibility in the payment terms accept credit card, offer financing options so that they can finance your services or your offering, but you're not doing the financing for them and for those clients or industries that it's inevitable, like if you're. I have seen it where sometimes the product is bigger and they'll send an invoice today but the client will have 30, 60 days to pay. Once that client has hit that payment date and now the balance is past due, pass on the interest costs to them, because if they made an expensive purchase, you probably have to leverage debt to buy that piece of inventory. So that means you're paying high interest rates on them. You shouldn't be financing their business for free and maybe you're not charging them the 7%, but before maybe it was 1.5%, that you were charging on a late fee and you weren't and you were ignoring it or not enforcing it. Maybe that fee needs to be 4.5% and you need to absolutely enforce it.

Speaker 2: 42:56

That's a good point. Yeah, because those fees are insane, like strike fees, good God.

Speaker 5: 43:05

Somebody can come up with a different payment system that would like give me some of my strike fees back. I would move over this. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2: 43:13

I know, If I had my QuickBooks open I would tell you how much strike gets of my money.

Speaker 3: 43:19

Well, guys, you're looking at it the wrong way, though, right? Because that B is allowing you to automate the cash collection process and the sales process is shortening your sales cycle, right? So why not pay a little? It's not paying a whole human to do the work for you. You're paying around 3% to bring in a sale and, if you're smart about it, that is sinking into your accounting system and applying the payment to the invoice directly, and it's also directly depositing the money into your bank account. Think about all of the efficiency that you're getting there, okay all right, but from what you were saying, you could also include the stripe fees as as part of it okay, thank you, into your pricing.

Speaker 3: 44:18

Yeah, your pricing and so I've set up. I set up, um, I did it, I don't do it. How do I want to say that? Okay, my accounting power hour I built a cushion for don't strike speaks in that rate. Right, it's easy, it was so easy to collect that money before the power hour even started. So to me that's like money well spent. So you can do it that way. Or when I was setting it up, stripe gave me the option of like charging my base rate and putting in the option for credit card and letting my customer know hey, I'm going to charge you this credit card fee. That brings a whole other set of complications because you know you have to understand the law and how much. Like Strike was saying that I could charge one percentage, my knowledge of Colorado says something different, so it's like I'm not even going to mess with it. I'm just going to bump up my base rate so that, at the end of the day, the money that makes my bank account is what I wanted to charge.

Speaker 2: 45:27

Yeah, that makes sense, peter. Were you gonna say something?

Speaker 4: 45:31

there's a I have a philosophy, which is when it comes to raising prices, please do not blame it on cost or inflation. Find a way to demonstrate value, like there's not but. And actually, melissa, how you articulated that, though, was it right? We're articulating the value of that, and I right you're showing you're not just saying it too. It's not just like, oh, I'm just going to reposition it as oh, this isn't a cost, I'm like. Demonstrate it. Find the value that's embedded in that, and that's where where the price raise can come. Not just, oh, sorry, I'm passing on the cost or I'm passing on the inflation. To you it may be the case, in reality, like you are actually increasing price or increasing the fees, but demonstrate why that is actually a value associated with it. Connect it to something that has a greater outcome in the long run. Make sure that's in the messaging itself.

Speaker 3: 46:21

I'm not your typical accountant, peter. I'm not cheap, I'm not a penny pincher, and this is why my experience, my time, are worth a fortune, right. So whatever is out there that will give me back my time and let me focus on the things that I am passionate about. Take my money, just take it right Like I won't even think about it, and those rich and seas are one example. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 46:53

I needed that reframe actually, thank you, and we're helping each other in this panel Gosh.

Speaker 5: 47:01

We talked. Oh, just to build sorry Sarah on what everybody said is we talked about it before is auditing yourself. I mean doing a monthly review of your P&L, your profit and loss statement, all of the money that's coming in, all of the money that's going out. Where is that? And Melissa said it before, if you are into like a cash strapped and you're worried about cash flow situation, doing that weekly so that you can really stay on top of things, Because the worst case scenario as a business owner is to get to a point where you don't know how you're going to pay your bills, or you don't know how you're going to pay your bills, or you don't know how you're going to pay your employees, or you don't know how you're going to pay yourself. If you are looking at your numbers and having an honest conversation with yourself, give yourself the time to plan for any kind of scenario that might come up in your business and don't take your foot off the gas on selling, because that is what you need to do to keep bringing the revenue in.

Speaker 2: 48:05

Yeah, that's a massive one right there is. Don't ever stop pushing your offer and selling.

Speaker 5: 48:13

Yeah, and now would be a good time to actually.

Speaker 5: 48:17

In the Honeybee sales circle, we look at profit margin on our products and the packages that we sell. Now would be a good time to actually if you haven't looked at profit margin. A lot of times as service providers, we don't really think about profit margin because it's our time and so we don't equate a hard cost to our time. It's our time and so we don't equate a hard cost to our time. But you should be looking at how much time, effort and money it takes to deliver a specific product or service that you have. And if there are specific services or packages that have higher profit margins than the other, it's okay to push certain things that are easier to deliver, that have higher profit margins, that also deliver value in times like this when you have a cash crunch or when things feel uncertain, or pull out things that are very labor intensive and maybe don't impact the deliverability of the package too much, or retool it so that you're able to really like kind of, get the maximum value for your clients but the maximum profit margin for yourself.

Speaker 2: 49:33

Yeah, yeah. I would even venture to say look at those high, like high time value offers and consider just cutting them. What makes the most sense? Where are you getting your profit? Not all offers, even if they're good, means that they're sustainable. I had an offer called the Strategic Story, which took a lot of my time and people loved it. It was easy to sell, but it took a lot of my time and people loved it. It was easy to sell, but it took a lot of my time and it just wasn't worth keeping that offer when the profit margin wasn't there. This one is for Dak. It's about sales. So when decision cycles slow down, like now, slow down.

Speaker 5: 50:23

Yeah, like now, what's one sales strategy that keeps deals moving forward? Yeah, I think there's a couple things that you can do. We all have bandwidth right within our business. We can only do a certain number of projects or have a certain number of clients. Most of us some of us have like a limited potential, but most of us have a certain number of bandwidth, and I think it's a really good strategy to be open with people around what that bandwidth looks like. Like I only have three spots available in me, or I only have X number of this thing that I can sell.

Speaker 5: 51:06

Not to create a fear, right. I think there's a difference between, like, creating a sense of urgency and then being emotionally manipulative, right, but you can create a sense of urgency around listen, if this is something you're interested in, I can only do so many of these and creating a sense of urgency around. You should sign up for this now, because it might not be available when you want it. That's one that I think is people I have had a lot of success with and other people I've seen implement it and it's sort of I've purchased. When they're like hey, I have two spots left. Me, too, I'm like I need a spot. I need your help. I was planning to like sign up in two weeks, and now I need to sign up right now because I don't want to miss my chance, and so that's one strategy that I think you can employ anytime, but certainly it's a good time.

Speaker 2: 52:05

Yeah, and that relates a lot with service providers, who do have a limited amount of time. They can only take on so many clients at a time. Melissa and I were just talking about that. Does anybody have anything else that they have tried before that has worked well for moving forward a stalled sales cycle?

Speaker 5: 52:27

I'll jump in. Yeah, I was going to say the other thing we talked about before is you know, if you feel like there's a stall offering a bonus or offering like if you, you know, agree within the next week, I will add on this right Something that you know is valuable to the client. And again, don't do this all of the time, but I do think that there are certain times, especially when there are slower sales cycle and you need to make sure you are bringing revenue in, where you can employ a tactic like that and have it feel good for everybody.

Speaker 2: 53:06

Yeah, that's the exact thing I was going to suggest. That's the time-sensitive bonus. Yeah, that's the only thing that'll do it, Okay the only thing that'll do it okay.

Speaker 3: 53:23

Oh, I want to say I think your gateway offer is something that I've, you know, used in the past, um, without knowing that that's what it was. Uh, we're calling it an assessment, or selling a project in phases. So let's do this phase first. This is how much the investment is, um, and then you wow them so that phase two and three just happen organically and get them there faster than you would have if you tried to solve the whole thing.

Speaker 2: 53:49

Yeah, yeah. I think that that is why gateway offers work so well, because you're building out this foundation. This is what would solve your problem. But oftentimes they either don't have the time to execute that, don't have the inclination to execute it, or just don't know how to execute it. So they'll want you for that milestone one, milestone two, etc. Let's talk about long-term moves that businesses can make right now that can help them become stronger on the other side of this economy crunch. Is there anything that comes top of mind that you would change now?

Speaker 4: 54:34

This is where we're going to go into. I'm going to mention something I mentioned earlier. There's three ways to raise prices, three levers. Right, you improve the outcomes. Right, you change the perception or you change the buyer. And when I say change the buyer again, I'm not just like just moving ICPs. This is an opportunity in which you can take a look at your business model, find opportunities to sell into different stakes. Right to move up, and I think this is where you can start to position yourself in a new pricing structure, a new pricing model, or changing the buyer.

Speaker 2: 55:09

Yeah, stakes made me think of stakeholder, by the way and just making sure that all stakeholders that are included in that buying decision are involved from day one. So they are being brought through that process with everyone else, because that's what really. This actually goes into the previous question, but that's what causes so much of the stall points during a sales process is, oh, I need to get this person's permission to and this person Just bring them in at all at the beginning. We'll wrap right here, and I just want to say thank you for joining me today. I think this conversation was so valuable, and does anybody have any last thoughts before we bounce?

Speaker 4: 55:57

Thank you, Sarah.

Speaker 5: 55:57

Thank you, yeah, thank you for putting this together. This has been so much fun. We should do it again. I you yeah, thank you for putting this together. This has been so much fun. We should do it again I know, yeah.

Speaker 2: 56:04

I was like, okay, we have just like all of the perfect people for this conversation.

Speaker 3: 56:08

I feel like your show is the show to be, and then Jack also. I feel like I'm a long royalty here, so thank you.

Speaker 1: 56:17

If you love all things tiny marketing, royalty here. So thank you. If you love all things tiny marketing, head down to the show notes page and sign up for the wait list to join the tiny marketing club, where you get to work one-on-one with me with trainings, feedback and pop-up coaching that will help you scale your marketing as a B2B service business. So I'll see you over in the club.