Tiny Marketing: Marketing strategies and systems for B2B service business founders.
Welcome to the Tiny Marketing Podcast—the ultimate resource tailored for solo marketers and small teams! Do you find yourself as the lone warrior in a tiny marketing department or juggling marketing duties on top of everything else? Then this is the podcast for you. Dive deep with Sarah Noel Block, founder of Tiny Marketing, as she demystifies the art of achieving big results with limited resources.
In each episode, you'll discover actionable strategies to:
- Craft Powerful Content: Learn how to create content that resonates and converts, even with limited resources.
- Master Repurposing: Find out how to give old content new life and extend its reach without additional effort.
- Expand Your Brand: Boost your visibility and influence with strategies tailored for small teams.
Join us at Tiny Marketing where we transform small-scale operations into powerhouse marketing engines. Discover more ways to refine and optimize your marketing strategy at Sarah Noel Block. Let’s make marketing manageable!
Tiny Marketing: Marketing strategies and systems for B2B service business founders.
Ep 133: Mastering the Art of Relationship-Based Selling with Brooke Greening
Feeling awkward during sales conversations? You're not alone. For consultants, coaches, and creative professionals who love their work but break into a sweat at the thought of selling, this episode offers a refreshing approach to authentic selling.
Brooke Greening, co-owner of Building Momentum Resources and relationship-based selling expert, shares her proven SERVICE framework that transforms uncomfortable pitches into meaningful conversations where both parties feel valued. Rather than relying on manipulative tactics or memorized scripts, Brooke's methodology focuses on preparation, active listening, and genuine problem-solving.
The conversation reveals why winging it on sales calls almost always backfires, and how just 15 minutes of thoughtful preparation can dramatically improve your confidence and results. You'll learn why the first problem clients mention is rarely their core concern, and how to skillfully uncover what's truly motivating them through validation and clarification techniques.
Perhaps most valuable is Brooke's practical advice for preventing endless follow-up cycles—a common frustration in B2B sales. By establishing clear next steps with specific dates and times while still on the call, you'll close more deals and waste less time on prospects who aren't ready to commit.
Whether you're an established service provider looking to streamline your sales process or just starting out and feeling intimidated by selling yourself, this episode provides actionable strategies that feel authentic and get results. The goal isn't just to make more sales—it's to create such value that clients actually thank you when they pay.
Want to transform your sales conversations? Subscribe to Tiny Marketing for more practical, implementable strategies that help B2B service businesses do more with less.
Brooke Greening
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I’m Brooke, and my approach to selling is a little… different.
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I also have 20 years of experience in sales, where I’v
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Welcome to Tiny Marketing. This is Sarah Norrblatt, and this is a podcast that helps B2B service businesses do more with less. Learn lean, actionable, organic marketing strategies you can implement today. No fluff, just powerful growth tactics that work. Ready to scale smarter? Hit that subscribe button and start growing your business with Tiny Marketing. Growing your business with tiny marketing. Hello, welcome to episode 133. I'm Sarah Noirblock and this is the tiny marketing show.
Speaker 1:Today's episode is for the consultants, the coaches, the creatives who love what they do but feel the awkward as hell when it comes to selling it. If the word sales conversation makes you break into a sweat, you are not alone. That's exactly why I brought in Brooke Greening. Brooke is the co-owner of Building Momentum Resources and a total rock star when it comes to teaching relationship-based selling. It comes to teaching relationship-based selling. She helps service providers ditch salesy, sleazy tactics and lead authentic, effective sales conversations that actually feel good on both sides. In this episode, brooke walks us through why winging it on a sales call usually backfires, the simple prep you can do in under 15 minutes to show up confident and in control of the conversation, and her signature service framework that helps you lead without dominating the conversation. We also talk about follow-ups, proposal traps and how to get your clients so happy. They say thank you when they pay you, so let's dive in.
Speaker 2:Hi, my name is Brooke Greening and I am co-owner of Building Momentum Resources and I help people in their sales conversations and just help people to not be salesy.
Speaker 1:I'm super excited about this conversation. I talk about sales all the time, but I'm definitely not the sales expert. I've just like stumbled into learning how to do it, so let's get into it. Can you tell me what is the biggest mistake that people make when they're going into a sales conversation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say there are two biggest mistakes, but the first one is that they're not prepared. They're just trying to wing it, because a lot of times they feel like, well, I don't want to be scripty, I don't want to be pitchy, but yet if they're not prepared, that's not serving their customer or themselves very well either. And then, on the flip side, when you're not prepared, you end up talking way more than you're supposed to be doing. And so the other piece is we talk way too much.
Speaker 1:Ah, yes, and that leans into the first learning point we have today. Before we get into that, though, I want to get into that scripting and being prepared. So when you say being prepared, are you talking about, like, understanding their company, or are you like the structure of the call? Is the preparation?
Speaker 2:I would say both. So we've created something called the service sales framework, and so that is something that you use in regards to being able to prepare for what you're going to say and also the homework in regards to knowing about their business and how to be able to have good conversations and good questions to ask them. So it can take like 10, 12 minutes to be able to do that well, so that you're not just walking into the conversation and winging it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the prep takes less than 15 minutes. Can you walk us through that framework a little bit Like nothing that is stealing your brain.
Speaker 2:No, it's my pleasure, so it's, I'm happy. Do you want me to share all of it? You would just want me to walk you through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker 2:Tell me yeah, no. So we created the service sales framework. It's an acronym for service, because it's really important to know when we're in a sales conversation. It is not about us, it is truly about who we're talking to, and so I did that intentionally to remind us from the very beginning that this is about them and we're going to be serving them in this conversation. It's not about me trying to get a sale, it's not about me trying to win something, it's them. So S is set expectation, e is establish rapport, r is recognize the problem, v is verbalize the value, I is identify objections and C is create urgency and E is explain next steps. If you have that framework, then that's how you're going to be able to serve them, and when things kind of go off the rails, you have somewhere to go back to. So setting the expectation is one of the very most important things, and a lot of times people just don't do that at all. So then the other person ends up running the conversation and taking control of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that can be problematic at any point in your relationship with a client. When you're the expert, you're supposed to be in that leadership role, and if you don't take ownership of that, it's off the rails. Then too, even when it's client delivery work, we're talking about.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's not just the very first conversation you have, it's every conversation that you're having that you're using the service framework in that, because things change and sometimes when we're in our sales conversations or maybe we've talked to them a few times people start to get like that glazed look in their eye and they're not really that engaged. It's because they really don't have any idea what to expect. They don't know what's going to happen. And so if you tell them, hey, we're going to talk about your business today, learn about some of the issues that you're having, see if I can be able to help you. If I can, great, talk about the investment. If I can't, great, then we're going to introduce you to someone who can. Then they're ready to listen. Then they're like, oh good, I don't have to get on another call to talk about the investment. I don't have to wonder if you're going to tell me what you can do to help me or not. Like they, they're more invested at that point.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, I was just going to ask what is the process of setting expectations? Is it a little a little, just one to two sentence brief, of what's going to happen in that call.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, when I work with my clients, because it's really important like I can give people ideas of what to say, and I do that a lot, because a lot of times in the beginning they're like well, you say it and it sounds good, I say it and it sounds like super clunky and we don't know what we're doing. But you just want to ask yourself truly, what do you want to cover in this conversation? Just so many times I feel, sarah, that we have like our regular conversations out here in the world and then when we have a sales conversation, we feel like all of that goes out the window and we have to like talk in a different way and we have to respond in different ways instead of having just authentic human conversations. And so you're just gonna ask yourself what do I wanna accomplish in this call? What are we gonna be talking about and what can I help them to know that we're going to be doing so that they're ready to go?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that same sort of framework with setting expectations goes through on everything, including your website. Yes, the best thing to do is have like these are the steps it takes to work with me so people understand the expectations. They come in with a knowledge of the process or the journey they'd go in with you and it makes it a lot easier to say yes when you have that in your brain already.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's a lot easier conversation to have too, because if they have looked at your website and they already know what's going on and, for me in regards, they have an idea of what's happening with the investment and all of that then you can have a much better conversation instead of just trying to figure out. It's like the way you don't set expectations is saying so tell me where you're calling from today, so tell me about your business, Like those are not setting the expectation, those are saying I clearly don't have any idea who I'm talking to or what we're doing, saying I clearly don't have any idea who I'm talking to or what we're doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds like a mass webinar, ama or something, the first thing you say. So tell me where you're coming from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just on a call, probably about a week ago, but it was just a one-on-one, and they asked that and that's okay, like we always try to want to establish rapport and I talk, ask that, and that's OK, like we all, we always try to want to establish rapport and I talk about that. But my idea of establishing rapport is a little bit different than like talking about the weather, necessarily, or or where people are calling from or things like that. But they did, and then they said so you know, I wonder what, what? Why did so-and-so want you to talk to me and so want you to talk to me? And in my mind I knew I was like you don't, you don't have any, you don't have any idea who I am or or what we're doing.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I this is a good time. Should we reschedule? Um, so yeah, I think it's just calls like that, yeah, and sometimes we do so it's it's not a judgment, it's just it's just knowing that if you're wanting to really set up your call for success, that's not the best way to start it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. So let's get into a little bit on how you can lead the conversation without taking over and talking too much. So how would you guide a typical client through that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would. So we do use our service framework through all of that. But the main piece for this is just making sure you have good questions, that you can be able to ask them and that you are making the decision on your own, before you even get on the call, that if we start talking and they start sharing a problem, you're not going to talk for the next five minutes, you're going to let it go. You're going to look at the clock and you're going to be like, okay, it's 2.09. I'm not saying any. I'm really bad at math. I'm not saying anything until 2.16. That's what you're going to do, and you're going to ask clarifying questions as they're sharing things, but you're not going to try to solve the problem. You're just going to listen and understand, because what happens is we hear one problem and then we just want to try to solve it immediately, answer it for them, tell them what we can do to fix it, and that's probably not actually what's really even bothering them. That's just the first thing that they've shared.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is valid. So you have questions prepared and you have this framework you're working through. How long is the typical sales call that you would recommend?
Speaker 2:Mine are short 30, 45 minutes, depending on where they're at and how comfortable they're feeling during the conversation. But I feel like if it's too short, it's really hard to figure out how you can help serve them best, because we don't really know. We can assume what their problems are, but if we don't actually give them the space to be able to share, it's going to be hard on our part than to say, well, this is what we can do or can't do to be able to help them, yeah, so let's talk about that a little bit, because I have a different sales process than you and I'm curious how you would recommend someone diagnose a problem within those 45 minutes, for example.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so, go ahead. You share your process. That's what you're asking in regards to how I would recognize the problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know that mine is completely different than yours, so it starts with like a 15-minute connection call more of like a vibe check and figuring out who they are and what problem they're dealing with.
Speaker 1:And then we'll move into the gateway offer where I'm with them for like 90 minutes and that I'm interviewing all of the stakeholders. I walk away, build an entire strategy, then we come back together and go over that and that's where we're doing the objections conversation and going through what their journey would look like if they decided to move forward with me. And then the sale happens. So it's like a four-part process. Yes, completely different than yours. So if you are doing it within 30 to 45 minutes, how?
Speaker 2:30 to 45 minutes, how Well? I think the first one is like that first call, like when you call it a vibe check, is like you're qualifying them right, like you're just trying to figure out like, is this a, is this a good fit? And that makes perfect sense, because as you start to have more and more leads coming in like that, that makes sense in regards to being able to do that. But then after that, then that 90 minute call is basically probably where you're figuring out, but you're also helping them at that point, right. So your 90 minute call is like kind of a strategy call. Is that right?
Speaker 1:At that point. It's a lot of questions. That's the listening. So I'm interviewing them and all of the stakeholders involved in that problem, and that's like listening for 90 minutes and then I walk away and build the strategy.
Speaker 2:Do you mind if I ask you do you charge anything? When it comes to the 90 minutes? Yes, is that your gateway offer? Yeah, that's my gateway offer, okay. So you're in the first 15 minutes, you're giving them a check vibe and then you're like, hey, if you want to continue to move forward, then this is what it's going to, this is what it's going to look like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So then the difference is we're having that conversation and saying, okay, as we're doing like the 45 minutes or whatever, we're beginning to understand, okay, where are their problems are at this point, we've vetted them. So we aren't doing that 15 minute check. We're just truly understanding who they are, what their business is and how we can be able to help them. And it sounds like for you, your process is okay, we do a 15 minute check, then you can pay me and we do a paid discovery and that's what we're doing, which is awesome and then we go through it.
Speaker 2:The next step that works If you're not doing a paid discovery. That's how the service framework could work. In regards to, okay, let's talk about the problems that they're having. For me, I'm a sales coach and then I help with marketing consulting, so we're talking about what's frustrating them and their business, where they're getting stuck and how we might be able to help them. Then we're bringing in like the offer that we can do and I have a little bit of a gateway offer and that's to move on to the next piece. So probably for you, your 15 minute goes into the gateway, For me, the 45 minutes can go into gateway or longer versions.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense? Well, I have one question. Yeah, no, go ahead, it does make sense, but I have a follow-up question. So, in your gateway offer, is that where you are building out what the roadmap of working with you would look like?
Speaker 2:So for me, my gateway is I can coach people through the service framework in four weeks. So that's the gateway offer. So they can join that and we do it either in small group or one-on-one. That's the first piece. Then after that, after they do that, then we can start saying, okay, this is what it would look like if I came on as a fractional sales officer for you, or it would look like if you wanted to do one-on-one coaching.
Speaker 1:moving forward, Okay, that makes sense. So generally people will start with the program and work through that and if they need additional support, or maybe if they're a larger company, then they would need you as a fractional. Yes, and the way we're approaching.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and the way we did that is because I would come in and I would, before we started doing the like it's called the sales accelerator lab. Before we started doing that, you would come in and you would be trying to help them and you'd feel like we have these like gaps, like I know what we need to be able to do and I know where I'm going at in regards to moving them forward, but they weren't sure, and so the best way for me to work with me is let's learn my framework and then we're off to the races and we, we can, we can get a lot of stuff done.
Speaker 2:I share with them. If you have leads, I can make you money very quickly. If you don't have leads, then that's going to take a little bit longer.
Speaker 1:Okay, so within the accelerator, are they learning how to generate leads? Yeah, they are.
Speaker 2:Okay, they are, because there's that also piece in regards I'm a story brand guide and so we talk about that, but a lot of it is where I do come in is I'm helping them as they're having that conversation of the lead has come. How are we leading that conversation? Because I think a lot of times people have more leads than they think, but sometimes for them it's like, well, it's just one conversation, maybe I'll send them a proposal Now I haven't heard from them for a good little bit and it's done, instead of saying no, you probably have more leads than you think, so let's look at that first.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay. That leads really well into the next learning point, which is the follow-up. How do you prevent it lasting forever? A lot of the people that listen to this show. They're in the B2B space, and I mean the process that I have keeps it tight, but a traditional process can take three to 18 months in B2B. So how do we prevent that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I do not disagree with that, because I do know that sometimes the bigger companies you go into, the more people that you're talking to, and so there are some things that are not in your control. But I do 100% believe half of the time, or even more than half the time, things start getting vague, or we call it like being ghosted or I call it landing up in follow-up land, whatever you want to do. Yeah, because on our sales conversation we weren't entirely clear of what we needed to do next, and so I always share in regards to how do you not do that three to six month follow-up? They need to walk away with two things, like when they've had their sales conversation. They have to know number one does my client know exactly what they need to do next to move forward with me, exactly, like date and time? And then you need to know this is where it gets all sorts of vague Are they going to do it? If so, when and if not, why?
Speaker 2:Because for me, as I work with my clients and they're having these high ticket conversations a lot of times they'll just be like oh, that sounds great, send me a proposal. And that sounds great, send me a proposal is not a good sign. That's usually someone being very gracious and saying, no, but this is how they're going to end up doing that. But then people feel like, great, I'll send you a proposal, I'll follow up with you next week and see if you have questions. Well then what happens is miracle of all miracles. You get a hold of them and you can talk to them and say, hey, I sent you my proposal, just wanted to see if you have questions and see if you got it. And they say I got it and I don't have any questions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the nightmare You're like. Now you're done, going nowhere.
Speaker 2:Absolutely nowhere. And so so, for, like you, you're you're obviously doing it Like you have it set. You're like here's our 15 minute call, this is what we're going to do next. Are you going to do it? If so, when? If not, why? Okay, then off you go. It's it's the same thing for them, like you have to know.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I think people are just nervous. They don't know how to ask. They're nervous about asking instead of just saying, okay, it sounds like this is a good fit. The next step to be able to work with me is so, if it's a proposal, to say, I'm happy to send you that proposal. The way that will work is we're going to schedule a time right now to be able to review that and I'll send it over to you and we can get going. Like that's, it's those pieces. But I feel like people just don't. They don't like confrontation sometimes. They don't want to come across as pushy. A lot of times, like with our B2B, it's their business, it's their baby, and they do not want to have anything connected to that that looks pushy or salesy or whatever adjective you want to use, and so that's why they just don't, they don't ask, and so half the time it's just like if you ask, you'll make more sales, absolutely.
Speaker 1:That went through a period where I had more clients than I could handle and I was like so when new leads would come in, I didn't do the proposal conversation because I was like I just don't have time and I'm not sure if I have the bandwidth for this anyway. Yeah, but I also noticed like there was a huge dip in new incoming clients. Because of that, it makes I would say it increases your odds by at least 30% to do that live conversation, to go over the proposal 100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%, and there's a little bit of a difference. So sometimes I'm working with people and they have really high ticket conversations. We're talking $100,000. That's what they're doing. And so just to encourage people, you have to be able to talk with them and you have to be able to guide them, because they're looking to you to help them in their business and if we're not guiding them in that sales conversation, there's no way they're going to trust us to guide them in fixing whatever it is that they need for their business. And so I always just encourage the onboarding starts on the first sales conversation, not when they start signing a contract starts on the first sales conversation, not when they start signing a contract.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I absolutely agree with that.
Speaker 2:Okay, so the big tip for not having that long follow-up is setting dates while you're on the call, yeah, and making sure you know if they're going to do it or not. That's the one piece. So when people are saying, hey, I'm going to give you a call next week, that's not what we're talking about. We're saying I'm going to call you, let's get this set, and that we're both verbally committed yeah, to doing this and the calendar invite.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, and a lot of times just do it right on the call, just right there. It takes like 30 seconds extra.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always set the calendar invite while I'm on the call. Yeah, and you can even just like wait until it's accepted to send the proposal. I think that a lot of people don't understand how long it takes, like the process of developing a proposal can be intensive, and if they're just blowing you off by saying, send me a proposal, they don't realize that they're also eating like eight hours of your time, potentially A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:And so if they do say that, you don't just have to say okay, yeah, like we can continue the conversation and say I'm happy to do that. The way that that works is, if I send a proposal, we need to set up a time right now to be able to review that in person. And then if they say, oh, no, no, no, no, I'm not ready to do that. You didn't lose them, they weren't ready to go, you already had, they were already gone At the moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I think it's just good for people to know like it's okay to guide the conversation and help them to know. Nobody knows what your sales process is unless you tell them. And so, for like you, it's nailed down, You've got it set, it's ready to go For a lot of people. They don't have one, they're just like okay, we have an idea of what it is, but it's not entirely clear. And if it's not entirely clear to them, it will never be for their potential clients. And then you can't scale at that point because you're just trying to reinvent the wheel.
Speaker 1:every single conversation you have yeah, and you'll look back on the clients that you closed and you're like what did I do?
Speaker 2:What did I do that time that worked so well? Right, exactly, exactly. Yeah, we don't want that. We want to know exactly what works, yeah.
Speaker 1:It doesn't have to be a guessing game, no, okay. So let's get into your last learning point, and that is how do we get our customers so happy that they bought from us, that they're saying thank you, yeah because I really think it's important not just to be able to have people buy from us.
Speaker 2:And I know people are like you're a sales coach. You should be like super excited about sales. I am, but I am not excited if they're not excited and I'm not excited if it's not going to be a sales coach. You should be like super excited about sales, I am, but I am not excited if they're not excited and I'm not excited if it's not going to be a good fit, because we all know what happens when you have a client.
Speaker 1:that is not a good fit and that is not it's tension the entire time. It is.
Speaker 2:And then sometimes it doesn't even get the results that you're hoping for, because nobody is really on page, nobody's on the same wavelength, it just gets kind of messy. And so when I say we want to make sure that they're thanking us as they buy, that really goes back to okay, what are the real problems that they're having? Because if they are giving like a surface problem and I'm saying, okay, I can fix that, but that's not really what's actually bothering them and driving them, I still did what they asked me to do, but they're not happy and that is a problem. And so when we're working through our service framework, we're really looking at what is it that the problem that they have? Because they're going to share the first problem nine out of 10 times.
Speaker 2:It's never really the big issue. It's not the thing that's motivating them or having the emotions behind them deciding to buy. There are other underlining issues, but they're not going to share those immediately. That takes trust to build with them and to have those conversations, and so, as you understand what those are and then you can say, yeah, I can help with those. That's when they're thanking you as they buy. But if we're trying to solve just that first problem both of us are going to get frustrated because we're like I did what you asked me to do, but in reality that's not really what they wanted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that really comes down to being the expert, because clients will always come to you with a potential solution in their mind because they've been thinking about it, they've been working through it in their heads. But that doesn't mean that it's the correct solution or that they even are aware of what the true core of the problem is. It's your job as the expert to be able to look at it and unravel that onion, to figure out what that center is, what's actually causing this issue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to do that. I always share that. We just we want to validate and clarify and validate and clarify, because the last thing we want is to come across as like, well, I don't think you actually know what your problem is or what the real issue is, Because that won't go well at all in any conversation.
Speaker 1:Not very likable.
Speaker 2:No, or trustworthy or any of those things. But when we validate and we're like oh man, that sounds really frustrating. How is that affecting dot, dot, dot dot? Or tell me a little bit more about it. That's when they start to open up and have that conversation that's when they start to open up and have that conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. So if people want to work with you, how can they reach out to you and get involved in your accelerator?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the sales accelerator goes on each month, so our next one is going to be in April April 21st and 24th so we have an afternoon one, an evening one, for what people are needing, and so you can find me on LinkedIn I'm there and then buildingmomentuminfo slash sales is also where you can find information for that, and then I do have a resource if it would be helpful for your audience, and it's that conversation assessment. It just helps people to know where they're at in their sales conversation, and so I've shared assessment. It just helps people to know where they're at in their sales conversation, and so I've shared that. I've created the service framework so we work through each of those steps in regards to how they would be applying that in their own sales conversations, because our conversations matter.
Speaker 1:They do. Yeah, that would be awesome. I am sure that everyone would love it. I only let's see, I have the Sales Accelerator Lab. Is that the correct link?
Speaker 2:Yep, you can go there and then if you do buildingmomentuminfo slash assessment, then you can grab the assessment there.
Speaker 1:You love all things tiny marketing. Head down to the show notes page and sign up for the wait list to join the Tiny Marketing club, where you get to work one-on-one with me with trainings, feedback and pop-up coaching that will help you scale your marketing as a B2B service business. So I'll see you over in the club.
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