Tiny Marketing: Marketing strategies and systems for B2B service business founders.
Welcome to the Tiny Marketing Podcast—the ultimate resource tailored for solo marketers and small teams! Do you find yourself as the lone warrior in a tiny marketing department or juggling marketing duties on top of everything else? Then this is the podcast for you. Dive deep with Sarah Noel Block, founder of Tiny Marketing, as she demystifies the art of achieving big results with limited resources.
In each episode, you'll discover actionable strategies to:
- Craft Powerful Content: Learn how to create content that resonates and converts, even with limited resources.
- Master Repurposing: Find out how to give old content new life and extend its reach without additional effort.
- Expand Your Brand: Boost your visibility and influence with strategies tailored for small teams.
Join us at Tiny Marketing where we transform small-scale operations into powerhouse marketing engines. Discover more ways to refine and optimize your marketing strategy at Sarah Noel Block. Let’s make marketing manageable!
Tiny Marketing: Marketing strategies and systems for B2B service business founders.
Ep 123: How to Tell Stories that Sell with Kendall Cherry
Kendall Cherry, founder and executive ghostwriter of The Candid Collective, joins us to crack open the secrets of storyselling in B2B marketing. With Kendall's expertise, we explore how each piece of content can double as a compelling sales tool, creating a magnet for the right audience while gently pushing away those who aren't a fit. Discover how embedding sales skills into your writing can transform casual posts into powerful sales catalysts and how ghostwriting is evolving, especially on platforms like LinkedIn.
Engage with us as we navigate the subtle art of weaving offers into stories, highlighting the transformative power of client case studies and the authenticity of "money-making testimonials." We tackle the unique challenges faced by minority business owners, such as visibility fears and profit dilemmas, and show how sharing real client successes can build trust and pull potential clients in. Alongside, we discuss organic lead generation, the art of client vetting, and the value of creating a sales ecosystem that minimizes traditional sales calls.
Lastly, we bring you insights on building a timeless marketing machine, emphasizing consistency and authenticity in business. Learn how to craft personalized sales processes that resonate with your natural lifestyle, while nurturing leads to create meaningful client relationships. Through storytelling, we uncover the potential of origin stories and the importance of maintaining a consistent business approach. Join us as we transform storytelling into a strategic, self-sustaining marketing powerhouse.
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Welcome to Tiny Marketing. This is Sarah Noelle Block, and this is a podcast that helps B2B service businesses do more with less. Learn lean, actionable, organic marketing strategies you can implement today. No fluff, just powerful growth tactics that work. Ready to scale smarter? Hit that subscribe button and start growing your business with tiny marketing.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone, welcome to the tiny marketing show. I'm Sarah Noelle Block and this is episode 123. Today I have Kendall Cherry talking about how you can create stories that sell for you. In the last couple of episodes, we've been talking a lot about selling In episode what it was. Two episodes ago episode 121, we talked about how to sell without using social media and then in 122, we talked about how to sell in the DMs and in social media. So the complete opposite. And today we're talking about how to sell in every story that we tell. So we're on a little selling binge right now.
Speaker 2:Today I want you to really dig in and understand how every piece of content should sell for you. You should be able to tie in your offer to whatever story you're telling. And another takeaway that I think that you're going to get from this is the importance of attraction and repelling. So a lot of us come from this state of mind where it's really difficult when someone doesn't like us. But when you own a business I mean when you're human in general not everyone's going to like you. You're just, you're a person like the rest of us and not everyone's going to vibe with you. And not everyone vibes with me for sure. Just look at my comments.
Speaker 2:But the thing is intentionally attracting and repelling. By using your transformational promises, your messaging, your stories, who you work with in the right way, you're going to pull in the right people and repel those red flags right from your content. And then, last, I really want you to understand how a well-designed sales ecosystem eliminates the needs for sales calls. So by the end of this episode, you're going to understand how to sell without having to hop on a call beforehand. So I hope you enjoyed and, if you did, once you're done with this episode it's a long one, by the way Kendall and I really vibed. Once you're done with this episode it's a long one, by the way Kendall and I really vibed. Tell me in the comments, wherever you're listening or watching this. There are comments there, so let me know what you learned from this.
Speaker 3:All right, enjoy. Hey, so I'm Kendall Cherry. I am the founder and executive ghostwriter here at the Candid Collective and we're on a mission to create a world that's more candid and kind. So most of my clients and just people on the internet they're always asking me, like, what does a ghostwriter do? And I think the marketing world is changing a lot the more we see things transform with AI. But to me, ghostwriting is kind of the sweet spot of writing, copy writing content. But to me, in kind of the modern world, ghostwriting is really about sales skills and how to write content that closes B2B sales, especially if you're somewhere like LinkedIn, and so that is kind of my special sauce. When it comes to the writing where it's kind of this fun, you know, it's subliminal it's like is she selling, is she not? But you would never know this. But I have this personal rule where I'm like every post has to be selling, even if it doesn't sound like I'm selling Me too.
Speaker 2:It's so rare. Yes, I figured it was so rare that I meet people who agree with that. Why would you write anything that doesn't at least like nod to your offer? Let's go.
Speaker 3:Let's go there, go, let's go there, let's go there. I think, oh, I don't know, I have so many like hot takes on this, but let's hear all of your hot takes.
Speaker 3:Let's hear all of them. I just hear man come and swinging right out the gate, the kindle cherry way. I just think that a lot of times people right now, especially in the like creator economy, is so like the sexy buzzword and you know, building an audience and monetizing and all these things and monetizing content, which is great but I think that when we're writing content, all of these courses that people buy from big name creators, they're always talking about the writing. Not once have I ever seen a course that's like. These are the sales skills that you need to have in your writing in order to close sales for content that converts. It doesn't exist, it's not there, you're right.
Speaker 3:And I see all these people that are like, yeah, I'm showing up, I'm writing, and I swear this is like a real example, because I get really fiery on LinkedIn because I know the implications if you're not selling, your business can't stay in business. And that's just the cold, hard truth. And I just remember looking in December, I was scrolling and someone was like on LinkedIn they posted a selfie with a car seat which with a bunch of Cheerios in their back seat, and they were like this is what these Cheerios taught me about B2B sales. And I'm like, oh what, what are we doing here? What are we doing? And so it's, it's there's so many things to unpack, but it's, I think they're I don't know.
Speaker 3:It's like digital marketers. A lot of times you know we're so focused on the content, but like marketing is really and truly, like it's a signal. But sales is the message, that's, that's the wording that goes out and I think so many people are afraid to sell or there's, there's much to impact there. But that's my first. My first hot take is I don't know, create our creator courses teaching you how to sell or they teaching you how to write.
Speaker 2:I don't know. They're teaching you how to write, absolutely, because I, as, like, my formal education is in writing and marketing and I've only ever learned how to write and it just came through being a marketer and only actually scratch that. Because I was in marketing for like 10 or maybe 15 years before I started my business and selling wasn't even really on my radar until I had to sell for my own business and I was like, well, I really need to figure out how to do this. And that's when I was like I don't have time to separate these worlds, it needs to connect. And that is the only, out of necessity, is the only reason that I realized I should always be selling. Every piece of content should lead to an offer. Let's talk about that selling, that subliminal selling, because I like that. You talked about that. I always talk about like subtle selling, nod to selling, soft selling, and it's really just like weaving in your offers into stories. Can you tell me how you do that and how other people can emulate it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I have a few like story frameworks that I really like to lean on which spoiler alert they're rooted in sales, not in writing, but there's a few few story that I think work really really well. The biggest one that I see that there's a lot of like subconscious, like discomfort, because I think a lot of times it's it's different. I get a lot of clients that I work with I think a lot of times it's different. I get a lot of clients that I work with where they're like I used to work, you know, decades in tech sales or whatever else. They understand sales. They understand like to own a business that runs on sales. You have to sell, like they get the basics, yeah. And then there's like a weird thing that happens when you're like but I have to sell myself and I have to like it is right about myself and you're like wait, no, no, no, no, and it goes against everything.
Speaker 3:You know that we're taught. I will say I also write for probably 95 minority business owners, so women, people of color, lgbtq or some kind of intersectional. This is like one of the biggest behaviors I see. Is this like fear of visibility, fear of accepting money, wanting to do good, authenticity and integrity are some of the biggest values that my customers tend to have. And so there's this big like. I don't know. It's like this big moral battle, honestly, internally, of like well, if I make money, am I a bad person? Moral battle honestly, internally, of like, well, if I make money, am I a bad person? And it's like no, you can use money as a tool for many, many, many things. But I think the one story that people get wrong and it's hitting right on the like am I going to brag? I've got to be humble.
Speaker 3:It is I call it a money making testimonial, but it's basically your client case study. It is I call it a money-making testimonial, but it's basically your client case study. It's. This is the client and the transformation. This is the before and after. This is what happened. This is how I saw the problem and how I solved it. And ew the part everyone hates. What are the results? It might look like revenue wins, it might look like time saved or other areas of a UVP, but it's those stories that people want to see mirrored before they're going to invest in you, especially if you're selling anything remotely high ticket. So that one. It's like. I see people on LinkedIn and they're like five stars, photo of the client, copy paste, testimonial, and I'm like you're making the customer do so much work trying to interpret the value, versus you just telling them the transformation. So, yeah, that's usually the the one I see the most from anytime. I see the five gold stars on linkedin, I'm like, oh god, like what are?
Speaker 2:we doing here? Yeah, no, I'm with you. So the topic that you had called out was the top five selling story frameworks and I have used this one that you're talking about and you're right, and it's actually worked on me. I started using it because I was like, oh damn, it's bottom of the funnel sales baby.
Speaker 3:It's bottom of the funnel. I can track because I do it now like clockwork. I have a rule every two weeks it's going on LinkedIn. Once a month it's going to my email list. I can track. When I send one of those, we've got inquiries coming through like it's almost, almost like clockwork because it's it's the bottom of the funnel selling.
Speaker 3:But you have to kind of like face your own demons and your own fears of like oh, but you know, I don't want to be too raggy and I sometimes hear people too They'll say like you know, I don't want to use my client's story, or it has to be anonymous. Most of the clients I tell the story about they're like please tell this story. This is crazy. You made me like a ton of money, like I want you to, I want you to tell my story, or they win time back, or they win time with their kids, like I don't know. Those are the things most people are actually really excited that you got to partner with them. But there's this like weird Again it's. It's kind of I don't know if it's a confidence thing or a visibility thing, but it's one of the most important parts of of the storytelling that I think we need to be sharing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I get where they're coming from. I feel uncomfortable, like calling out specific clients. I'll usually change their name when I'm telling the story. I don't. I don't want them feeling like I'm monetizing their experience and maybe that's just like just ask their permission. Yeah, can I? Can I write this story about you? That's, that's the biggest thing I've learned is like any time because I used to have people like screenshotting ask their permission.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just say, hey, can I, can I write this story about you? That's a. That's the biggest thing I've learned is like anytime, because I used to have people like screenshotting like holy shit, and they'd share stuff and be like can I, can I share this with? Like the context and I think that's the the big thing is we live in this like very um, let's say like highlight real world. We don't know if you know, is it all-time revenue? Is it like some numbers you inflate?
Speaker 3:yeah, there's no way yeah, and so it's, and so it's this again. It's kind of this fear of like, well, I want to be an integrity, so I'm not going to do it at all. That's. That's not the answer. So I always say, like you know, ask for permission. If you really feel uncomfortable, like, send it to your client to approve before it goes out and then add it to your library. It's to me it's worth the investment to have, like, have it written, have it approved by someone. If that's something that makes you uncomfortable, but the visibility is so much more important because it's it's not just about, like, how much money you could make, but if you do deeply transformational work, which we all do, like those are other clients that you could be helping if you can, if you're comfortable with getting the story out there, the money is just like the extra on top yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:and I want to add calling out their niche or like who they are in that post helps a lot too, because then other people that are within that niche or that role can be like oh, oh, that's me, that could be me.
Speaker 3:Totally. Yeah, people, I think a lot of times your customers like sometimes, especially with higher ticket stuff, sometimes they just need permission that it's okay for them to invest in you, even if it's like number of years in business, whatever levels of nuance you can include background, you know. Know. This is why the before picture is so important, not just the after, but like really unique picture so it's universal enough. People really like, if if I'm going to invest a lot of money, like I want to know that it's I'm going to get the outcome that I want, and I also want to see it interpreted in more than just a sales page.
Speaker 3:I don't want to just be like, okay, pinpoint one, two, three, four, five. Like I want to see the story, the richness, the nuance to understand. Like, like, paint me a picture. What does this actually look like? Vision cast for me, Like, is this even something that I want? Or would there be another provider that could maybe, you know, do something a little bit different that I'm looking for? But like you win all the way around, whether it's qualifying leads, disqualifying leads, attracting, repelling, it kind of serves every function in the marketing department.
Speaker 2:Yeah, people underestimate the value of repelling because you're on a lot less sales calls that go nowhere. Well, my gosh.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I don't even like really get on sales calls very much anymore. It is pretty rare for me because my content and the ecosystem is kind of selling for me all the time. So, whether it's on LinkedIn or the emails that we have my services guide, I've got this really great ecosystem where I don't, first off, I don't have to get on sales calls and pretty much any inquiry that's coming through I'm like, yep, I can help them, I can help them.
Speaker 3:I typically don't even really reject people at this point and if I do, it's someone where I'm like, okay, you're not quite where I need you to be, go read this book and then we'll be ready. But it's the repelling thing. It's like I I don't want to use my energy like repelling people because I do want to help, but I I just need you to be in a certain either like mental space or like level of business comfort. Your offer has to be at a certain place or, if you're going to hire me to fix it, know that it's going to be an investment. But um, yeah, the repelling is such a huge. It's definitely one of one of the better revenue generating like areas. If you can can kind of amp that up in your, your content as well yeah, and I think that it probably flips people on their head.
Speaker 2:They're like wait, telling you, like describing who you don't want to work with, like pushing people away is helping you sell, and it really. It really does, and you waste so much less time. I'm curious, though, about your sales process, because you have a service, and it's not always easy to sell a service without a sales call. So do you have an application process?
Speaker 3:calls. So do you have an application process? No, not really. So I pretty much my inquiry form is my application. So it is. It is at this point. It, I think for me.
Speaker 3:A few years ago I was kind of in this place where I was getting, you know, qualified and disqualified leads and I needed a way because I would just, you know, I was sitting on the sales calls and I was like, well, we're having the same conversation Like this is just, you know, not that I don't love my clients, but that's time that I could be writing for them. And so for me, the kind of sales process really looks like you know lead gen from whatever source. So that could be usually LinkedIn. That's kind of the only place I'm doing any kind of marketing right now. So someone gets it into my ether, whichever way.
Speaker 3:Most of the time people end up on my email list. I have an email newsletter called Wallflower Fridays. I go more into the specifics of how to tell stories that sell, but I do that newsletter on Fridays and then on Mondays I send a sales email. That spoiler alert, it's from a content library. I'm not writing it fresh every week, it's a six-month content library that runs back and um, I have a service guide where I don't post my pricing anywhere online. So a lot of times people are kind of looking for what it is that I do. The content's already kind of I'll say customer acquisition wise, like people are if they're downloading the services guide like they're 90% sold already on wanting to work with me in particular, and so that's where they get.
Speaker 3:You know, here's my process, here's the pricing, here's all the things. Here's how the waitlist works, you know, here's the form if and when you're ready. And then the inquiry form is the application. You know, but it's pretty in-depth. Someone told me once last year I was like, oh, I'm sorry, but that's why I know you're going to want to work with me. He was like this took me like an hour to put this together, but it kind of does weed out like either someone's going to take the time to fill it out and I'm going to get a lot of great data and know exactly what they need and what the problems are and can diagnose it in you know, seconds after saying kind of what's going on. But it's also this really great way for someone to do their own self-reflection process to where, when I send a proposal out because I don't get on a phone call I just pretty much say, if they're aligned, which they mostly are, here's what I think you need. Here's a video proposal that takes the place of a. You know, sales, call me. Just saying this is what I think you need. Here's a video proposal that takes the place of a. You know, sales call me just saying this is what I think you need. Don't need this is what I would do if it were me. I usually ask for the budget, like explicitly, and work with them to see what makes the most sense. But it's not, it's not. I just hated like even the idea of sales calls where I'd be like oh my gosh, if I have one at 2 pm, like my whole day is like waiting around for the sales call. Yeah, and especially as a writer, like it's really hard to get into the like creative kind of yeah, that mode start, start and stop. It doesn't really work that way for me. I need like a full day of like airplane mode to really get into it, and so I just I just started seeing like okay, what are some places and some stoppers, like I'm having the having the same. You know questions usually on sales calls. Let me add a bunch of FAQs to my services guide.
Speaker 3:You know I want people to get onto the email list and get to know me a little bit more. I don't normally like to work with people that aren't at least a little bit familiar of like who I am and what I do I do. I want someone that like respects what I'm doing, which is not just the storytelling and the sales, but it's my writing is usually a lot more nuanced. It's usually I've got you know three kind of sub markets that I'm writing for all at once, and so I want someone that kind of also appreciates the craft a lot as well. I get people that are like one of my clients was like how come every single email you're writing is making me cry.
Speaker 3:I'm like I wrote it. I wrote it that way. I wrote it that way intentionally because that for the kind of people that she's wanting to work with, like that works really well. Um, it's kind of a coach and a consultant, and so it's. It's getting people that really respect what I'm doing and the storytelling and the sales, but like appreciating the craft as much as well, because I want to work with people that get what I'm, what I'm really doing over here, and so more, more repelling and, you know, just creating a little resonance wherever you can no, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:So your sales process is built to attract and repel throughout the entire thing. So so you have to do less of the manual selling.
Speaker 3:I don't do. I'm very anti-cold pitch. I do not do any of that Very much. Like you know, organic lead gen and I just trust I've had clients who were like completely broke and like knew that they couldn't afford to pay me. And then what do you know, they have like a big splashy launch or like something finally kind of works and then all of a sudden they've got budget to work with me. So online business changes so fast that I want to attract people. You know whether you get a huge windfall or whatever else, like I just want to work with people that they they know that I'm the right fit, whether they're they're ready to invest like right, this second or, I think, the longest person I call it a longtime lurker, so someone who's been in the audience they're not really like liking anything because they, you know, if you like or comment, they think they're going to get in this like like shitty sales process.
Speaker 3:So they're very they. They lurk, but they don't let me know that they're around until it's time. But my longest, long-time lurker was like. They were in my audience for nine years, which legit that is like legit, like. Let's flash back to where I was nine years ago. I was in college. I was an intern, like I did not have a baby.
Speaker 3:There was a little baby. I didn't even know I was like a social media manager before. It was like cool, and it was someone that they just followed my LinkedIn story. They'd seen like the good, bad and the truly atrocious of really shit like selling. But when it came time for them to need what I was doing, yeah, she, she reached out, like she she'd seen it all.
Speaker 3:I mean you pretty much poor baby kindle, didn't? I don't know anything about sales. I didn't go to school for anything sales related. Like I didn't learn. I didn't learn until probably a couple years ago really how it works. So she, she really saw me and the trade and she loved you and she loved me. And when she knew she needed a ghostwriter, she was like I'm working with you, I'm paying in full, like let's do this thing. And I was like like I could have. I'm sorry, I could have just never. I could have never predicted something like that would happen. And that's that's the thing with sales is like if you're open enough and like open for business enough, that's kind of what I always envision is like every morning I just hang on open for business side mentally and I kind of just see what happens and my, my funnest client stories, like the, the weird synchronicities like they always happen when I'm more open and I'm out of the spreadsheet, trying to like reverse everything yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 2:I love that, and I've seen that myself too and the longer that they're lurking, the more excited they are to work with you.
Speaker 3:My.
Speaker 2:God, it's the best. Yeah, they're secretly friends with you. It's like podcasts that you listen to where you're like I feel like.
Speaker 3:I know you. Oh my God, yeah, I have another longtime lurker. It's actually the girl I think the best like little messaging quips, like I'm I'm a good writer, but like I don't come up with them. It's like this is this girl actually she. In her inquiry form it said like longtime lurker, first time caller, and I was like I'm stealing. That that's really good, but we had. So we had a discovery call for this project she needed help with and, if you didn't know, my brand marker is a sunflower and you'll see them all over the place. My LinkedIn profile is me. I saw it on your Jumping with freaking hair in the air and you know flowers everywhere. That was a poem. But so on our project kickoff call, she like wore her flowers and I was like Allison, did you wear those for me? She was like, yeah, I couldn't buy you flowers, so I figured I'd wear them and I was like that's cute, like so sweet like that's a real person, yeah, and when it's so genuine too, and I think that's the thing like we can get.
Speaker 3:That can get lost a little bit in the online world especially, there's a very toxic side and like capitalistic side to kind of you know, making money on the internet, and I think people forget like there's all those little magical moments that like that can happen. But it's never for me at least, it's never happened when I was like worrying about money, need to get my spreadsheet stress to the max, like it usually happened when I was open, I was like enjoying myself, I was having fun, and then it's like the universe just drops in again.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, buy you a bouquet so she wears one for you. It's, it's too good, it's too good it.
Speaker 2:I want to touch on that for a bit, because your mental state has a huge impact on how you sell. At least that's my experience. When I'm relaxed, I'm like it's all going to be fine. It is all fine, it always works out.
Speaker 3:It always works. May not feel like it in the middle, like in the middle I have been through the dark days, but it always, it always, it always works out. And it's every time I'm always like shit that was better than like even if I would have come up with that, like I'm all the time where I'm like I'm a writer and like some of the shit that happened, like I couldn't even write this, like it's better if I don't worry about it, because then I get some crazy synchronicity or something else.
Speaker 3:Yes, the universe is like here you go, here's a really great, fun story, but it's so hard in the moment because we get I mean, there's so many reasons right, there's so much pressure. I know I feel like this on LinkedIn and I feel like I have a pretty solid mindset and headspace when I'm like should I be wanting to make more money? Should I have a $2 million business already? Why am I behind? I'm not doing that. I know what I'm here to do, I know what I'm wanting to do and I'm really grounded in that. But it's really easy when a lot of people's marketing platforms can have a tendency to lean, you know, shame-based scarcity, lack mentality, it can definitely. I mean, even the strongest mental people I think can can still fall, you know, victim to that or feel influenced by it, when a lot of the times too, some of the stuff they're posting isn't even true but a lot of it.
Speaker 3:It's like when did this spreadsheet, or like when this screenshot, actually get taken?
Speaker 2:like come on yes, or they're only telling you a little piece of the story, so it looks so good and shiny, but in reality they're in dead up to their eyeballs, totally, totally. So we talked about one storytelling framework, we talked about our client stories, so let's get into the next one. How else can we sell through stories?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So the next two, I'll say they kind of pair up together. This one is classic marketing. We love to talk about pain points and success factors. I think a lot of people feel really intimidated by talking about pain points and they don't know. I know, for me that was a hard thing. At first. I was like I'm not going to capitalize on someone's pain points, but like to provide a solution you must share with the problem. Yeah, that's just, that's just duality, that's just all that is. And so the thing with pain points that I found is a lot easier they kind of go together is painting a picture of a day in the life. So you could do this. Um, you don't necessarily need to like use a fake name or anything, but just take someone through, like you know, if it's painful right now, like I, you know, I bet you xyz. Like now, like I, you know, I bet you X, y, z. Like use examples. I find that the more specific that you are, the more premium the sales messaging goes.
Speaker 3:So there's something I like to talk about. People use like, especially in AI world, like lowest common denominator messaging. It's the same thing, like if it's the most obvious pain point. You and your you know 50 other competitors have also thought of it. So don't use like, so use.
Speaker 3:Use more specific examples and even if it feels like you're maybe siloing people out, this is more of a like, a writing technique, but the more specific you are, the more universal the story becomes.
Speaker 3:So, even if it feels like you're kind of pigeonholing something, I find that people can tune into the meaning of what you're saying and apply it to your own life versus you know, you use this big. I just picture like the ocean of you know the most obvious example, like you should hire, like hire a writer so you don't have to write it, and it's like okay, but there's like other ways you could say that yeah, and like day in the life you can do either. Again, you can do it with pain points or success factors or solutions is a really great one, and it's just vision casting and it's just taking someone through like you know. Imagine what it would look like if just vision casting and it's just taking someone through like you know, imagine what it would look like if, and, and really just diving into what that could could be with your offer or your service or your product as the hero really that really does work, and I've, I've, I've been told that way too, because your body honestly feels like a little looser.
Speaker 2:When you hear that imagine statement like we're right, I could imagine that that is what my life looks like now. Now take me on that journey.
Speaker 3:You show you wow, like, like, oh, someone finally gets it. Like I know I feel it comes from, like you know, doing my best out here. And again, the more specific you are, the more it tends to kind of lean into your actual experience. So, even if it's not 100% the same, it's the okay. Well, this person works with someone that's kind of in my same. You know what I'm going through, so they're going to get it. And I think that that's so important for any kind of providing a service is really making sure that the person you're going to invest in gets what you're about, or at least close to around what you're about.
Speaker 2:I think yeah, yeah, and like a common pain point that lots of people are going through is they just don't have enough time. It's always like around time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what does the time mean? Tell me what the time exactly? The thing I always think about is like okay, time, yes, time is important, but also the time represents something like yes, time is also money, like that's another thing is is time is money, and so I think that people just need that kind of example of what the time could be used for. What could the money from the time be used for?
Speaker 2:Like there's a lot of examples that you could go into yeah, connect it, like, look at some of your clients and see what do they do with their spare time so you can connect the dots, because it's very likely, like if you like your clients and you want to clone them, that other people probably also want to do that with their spare time exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's. That's something I think people don't do enough of either is like they they think about like, oh, I gotta create original content. I'm like, no, no, you want to figure out a way to bottle up your best clients, your favorite people to work with. That's that's really the role of content, especially if you kind of like me, like I'm I'm purely evergreen, like I have a huge content library I you know I've built over the years and that I lean on to help support the sales. But all of that you're like, oh, post it to support that kind of person I want bottle it up, bottle it up, bottle it up, repurpose it. So then you're only you're not having to write content fresh all the time.
Speaker 3:It's the hardest part of your job is lead gen and connecting with new people and like letting the machine run. It's not let me manually sell and generate all these leads and I have to write my content fresh every week. It's like something's got to give. Connect to all of them, connect to all of them. I'm over here like I'm a writer and that's too much writing for me, like I don't want to do that. It's just working smarter, not harder, I think yeah it really is your sales.
Speaker 2:your marketing can connect, and so can your lead gen. All of that can be connected into one thing.
Speaker 3:A machine. I just picture me as, like you know, I stand back cross-armed and I'm just watching the machine run and I'm like doing, maybe doing a little tweaks here and here, but I'm like evergreen baby long game, like we're here we're here yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I completely get that. I always refer to my lean marketing engine, because once you get that foundation, you get that machine running. It's just working for you. All you have to do is like stick with your routine have the the big lows.
Speaker 3:I'm not a big fan of that. My nervous system doesn't like it. So I'm like style, oh hell. No. Like I mean it's too risky. It's also just from a business perspective it's too risky, I'm sorry. I don't want to have to close like 80 of my sales in one launch and if it fails. But no, like I, I have a small team. This is like the money I use to pay myself. I just am not comfortable with that.
Speaker 2:So no, evergreen, all day, every day. I like to do tiny launches because I like the style of them, but I'll do tiny launches, like once a month. I'm going to promote this thing, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:So yeah, for me, I'm just and it's probably the nature of what I offer as well which is like retainer content for you know, six month contract, maybe a project, like I don't know, and I get so booked in advance anyway, or I'll get like a random inquiry where I'm like, well, that was you know a larger scope, where, like, I couldn't have predicted that. So I find launching has been hard just from a like scoping and capacity perspective, where I'm like I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 3:You know I always end up getting booked out a couple of months in advance.
Speaker 2:I'm like well, yeah, if you have six month long retainers, yeah, probably don't have to do a ton of selling. You probably have way more inquiries than you actually need.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, no, I ended up hiring a writer to help me this year. I'm also writing a book in the background that I'll launch later this year. So I've had to kind of do some, you know, hiring support and that kind of thing. But yeah, it just, it just with the longer contracts and kind of the one off projects and everything. It doesn't need a bunch of fuel to make the sales engine run at this at this point, but I've, you know, been on it. I've tested a few things over the years too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, in my first like three years I was only doing retainers and I barely had to sell. It was so easy yeah it's.
Speaker 3:I think there, I mean, there's something about, like, retainers and also, I'll say, referral-based businesses that it sounds sexy Like oh yeah, my business runs on referrals and I'm like I don't love that. I feel like and this was just kind of my story I felt like I kind of came in into this business in like 2020, 2021. And so everyone was you know, all my peers were like yeah, I'm booked out, I'm on referrals, referrals, and I'm like I don't know what's going on with me. But that just wasn't the case for me. So I was having to learn really how to sell and I just, I just don't love referral based businesses because you don't have any control of your client roster. Yes, like.
Speaker 3:And the other thing is like okay, you know, let's say, sarah's my client. Well, you know, sarah told Veronica that I'm X amount per month. So now Veronica thinks that they're going to get. I'm like, no, no, I want to raise my prices, like, I want to raise my prices, I want to work less hours, like. So you end up getting trapped and that was the thing I started seeing with my revenue is where I was, like, you know, I'm hitting the ceiling and it's partially because of these, these referrals that are coming through, or if a referral client you know drops off or I'm waiting on the referral gods to like send me another referral and I haven't learned how to sell. Like I'm screwed. I have no sales lover and so I didn't love that and so I've kind of I try to caution. Some of my clients come to me and they're like you know, I was a referral based business and then things stopped working and I'm like now that's like the nature of what ends up happening, like you have to get the sales part turned on basically yes, Every single member of the tiny marketing club that that they are running on referrals
Speaker 3:and it stopped. Yeah, this is, this is how it goes. And a lot of times and classic I'm I'm curious that this is what happens. But what happened? A lot of people, when they have referrals, they're like, oh, I'm fine, I don't need to do any of my sales and marketing stuff disappear linkedin, disappear from instagram, and then I can tell you the moment someone's client rolls off because I'm like, oh, look at that.
Speaker 3:All of a sudden they're just like back from the dead and I'm like, like for me, as somebody that's going to invest in, you know, any kind of high ticket service, I'm like I want to know that that person is consistent and that they know what they're doing. And so it's actually like a huge red flag to to not be consistent and to kind of go through these like feast and famine and your energy and consistency and showing up in sales and marketing spoiler alert mirrors the feast and famine and your revenue. That's yeah, I like tie a bow on that one. That's just how it works, and so that's why I kind of didn't want to have any of that. I don't know behavior in the business anymore because it was hurting the sales too much. It was it was feeling out my own control, which I don't like that feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we might be the same person.
Speaker 3:I'm the finest boy, tell me if this sounds like you it sounds like me.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you that much. It's uncomfortable relying on other people, and I'm the same way. I'm always talking about how I. If I see that you're inconsistent in your marketing, I believe that you'll probably be inconsistent in how you work with me. It makes me trust you less Totally.
Speaker 3:Totally, yeah, I think. I think people get so confused with there's always like that, you know, no like trust. I'm like there are certain behaviors that people look for. They're way more important than like no, like trust in the content and the consistency is by far the biggest word yeah, I think that the trust is part of the consistency.
Speaker 2:Like it's lost. If you say you're gonna show up weekly on a youtube show, for example, and you just drop off the face with the earth, my trust is gone. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Or even I mean, if you think about it, I mean, especially if you're doing any kind of like a program based with a cohort, that's a really bad red flag to kind of show off. If you go through these like high launch periods or I'll see, even sometimes with the clients who run ads, they're like oh, it's cool, I don't need to email my list anymore. We burned the leads that we had, so we'll just go generate a bunch of them from ads. And I'm like you have so many potential leads just sitting there waiting. There wasn't time for them. Then, like this could be easier. It's kind of getting easier. Get a six-month content library. You will thank me later. You will thank me later. Like it's just it's. It's funny, the things that I think people think business how it should be, it should feel so much sexier. And then it's like the the boring is the thing that creates the the really bolts.
Speaker 2:There's nothing sexy about it, it's routine. I I call it my everyday profit habits. It's just like simple things I do every day that bring in leads. Yep, it's boring, but it works. It's boring, but it works.
Speaker 3:Let's get a fancy drink in one of your five cups on the table. Get you some good music going. Drink a cup of coffee, Call it a day Like it's just well. Your nervous system also will thank you for how grounded you feel in doing it versus the like oh shit, I need a client now.
Speaker 3:Like freak out, do all the things, like that doesn't know right yeah, so it's not, it's not sexy, and no one's talking about this on the internet because we're all making a million dollars in a weekend or whatever. It's not happening.
Speaker 2:Yes, whenever I tell stories about like big sales days, I always give them the asterisks like I was nurturing those relationships for months before you just happen to all sign on the same day? No, literally, literally.
Speaker 3:You're like oh, this big, big month. Let me, let me tell you about my, you know, 35, 35k and the 4K the next month. It's because they all closed on the same day. It's a credit hour. It's a credit hour that way.
Speaker 2:They don't think you're special.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, exactly. But good people don't. I think part of it is there's people make it seem a certain way and then it's like, well, if they did it, then I'm going to do it, and so that's toxic. But then, there's not a real like truth saying of like no, this is like what they're doing. One you don't have to do it too, and it also doesn't mean anything about you if you had a slower sales month for whatever reason.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, they happen all the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and no one's talking about those. No, no, it's not sexy. Yeah, it's not, it's not sexy, but it's real life and that is I don't know. I think I wish things could be a little bit different and I, you know, I try my best to be, especially with sharing the nuance of like this is how this happened. But yeah, it's interesting what people will pay to believe. I'll say that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have started talking about my slow sales months, like three months later, so I can show them what, like what habits I added to fix that. Yeah, but that's the most comfortable I can get. I can't talk about it while I'm in it because I'm too deep in it.
Speaker 3:No, it's terrible. Well, no one wants you to to get kicked when you're down, which this is actually a great segue into, uh, into four. Are we in the third one or the fourth one?
Speaker 3:um, let's see two and three you combined into yes, yes, so one of them is lessons learned is one of the big, the big ones. So thank you for the the queue up. But yeah, I think and it's this weird thing on the internet there's kind of two trades. There's the like okay, well, if I'm honest about like this was a hard sales month, then no one's going to trust me. I personally, the reason I really like sharing lessons learned give it some time, don't talk about it when you're in it like something my coach and I talk about is like I never push publish on an unprocessed thought. So, like, make sure you've like wrapped it up, you've done the post-mortem, you know, talk, talk about it. But you can usually trace back like okay, what caused this to happen? Um, but lessons learned, I know, for me especially someone that you know provides high ticket, but also I write high ticket and also I invest high ticket I want to know that someone has the business acumen to get themselves out of a hole. Yeah right, high ticket sales is super interesting because and like premium sales messaging it no longer is about just getting the like you know, the economical solution these people care about that you have nuance, that that you have range, that you've not only you know, made it X amount of thousands of dollars or whatever else. They also want to know that you know how to navigate out of really tough spots. That is where the actual like gold comes from.
Speaker 3:Yeah, with some boundaries, I will say with some boundaries. So a lot, of, a lot of people will be like. They'll ask me like well, I'm supposed to be like hashtag, vulnerable, right, like I'm supposed to talk about this? Like big mental breakdown I had and I'm like no, you don't have to do that, it has nothing to do with you, it has nothing to do with your business. That's my first thing. Like I'm, I'll say like for this podcast.
Speaker 3:I just went through a very profound, like biggest grief cycle of my entire life. Did I write about it anywhere? Hell, no, like I maybe alluded to it. I will probably not talk about what happened in any form of content because I have a boundary of like these are the topics that are awful, mixed, that also have nothing to do with business anyway. So those are just like things like family, kids, revenue, to a certain extent, like there there are certain things you don't have to talk about in the name of being hashtag, vulnerable, like, and again, I just think about the freaking cheerios in the back of the car, like I mean, you're cringing all over again. What are we doing? Or even, just like you know, sharing selfies, and you know a selfie of you crying, and I'm like, oh yuck, don't like that at all.
Speaker 2:I hate that.
Speaker 3:I'm like please stop performing for this. Yes, this is really weird and it also shows me that you don't actually know anything about business, like it just does so many things.
Speaker 2:Or vulnerability, because nobody nobody, when they're actually feeling that way is going to think to take a picture of themselves.
Speaker 3:it doesn't come off as authentic at all you don't want to see me when I've been crying. Okay, it's not cute, it's not cute, it's not cute for an algorithm, it's not good. But it's this thing where I think people just like it's, it's you want to be vulnerable, and there is. I think people mistake authenticity and vulnerability so much like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not vulnerable if I don't tell you all my scars or whatever, and I'm like I don't really want to monetize from my scars, because then that means I'm gonna call in more scars, like I don't. Yeah, it's kind of bad, juju, you know, I don't really yeah, I don't mean that I don't.
Speaker 3:I don't. I don't want my marketing strategy to be. Let's talk about, like the shit I should be talking to a therapist about you know, yeah, I've got her for that, I've got her for that.
Speaker 3:I have a coach for that, like I have all the people resourced not for this purpose. But again, it's this thing of I think we with the vulnerability piece and everything else it's like I want to share you know what I learned, or whatever else. But you have to remember, from a business perspective, I think it is smart to talk about harder seasons just because, again, that shows business acumen, which is, I know, for me. If I'm going to hire a coach or I'm going to hire a marketing person, I'm like you, better know what to do. If the plane starts falling, I want to know that you know how to fix it and I want to know that you know how to fix it in your own business, because otherwise anyone can say that they know what they're doing. That's half of LinkedIn. Absolutely. Show me that you know how to get yourself out of it, or like how to generate revenue when you need it, or prove to me that this works, even if there's a slow cycle or whatever else.
Speaker 2:The last two coaches I've had. I went with them because they went through periods that I went through periods and I was like, oh, they got themselves out. I want them Totally.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've been working with my coach for almost four years in May, three and a half years I guess at this point and it's for her like a lot of our journeys like mirror a lot, where she's kind of, you know, usually a step ahead of me but I, because I do the inner work, does the inner work, but a lot of the like strength in the, the mental performance for sure, has come from her teaching me you know about, you know it doesn't mean anything about you if your revenue is slow and and all of these lessons that I think people kind of discount that that is an important part of business, like the mental performance, the ability to stay on track, like good god, everyone, everyone getting distracted by all this stuff.
Speaker 3:That is not generating revenue but it's like the illusion that it could versus just like do do the simple thing, do do the tiny things that you know. You're. What did you say? The diet, the tiny, oh, everyday habits. You know, you're. What did you say? The tiny, oh, everyday habits.
Speaker 3:Everyday habits yeah, everyday habits Like that was the hardest thing for me, because I used to be a you know, a high-low girl. I used to be like let's ride the roller coaster, this is so fun, high octane risk and stress, and now I'm like that actually was the worst, like the worst period of my life, but it's. I think working with, like coaches or service providers that also like their business model and the energy, like how they're making money, like what is, what are the values behind how they're doing this, that's another. That's like a sub story type, but like definitely having an understanding of like well, how, how are they making money? Like how does this actually work, I think really is helpful, because you can definitely work with people who are like pro, launch, pro, ads, pro, all these things, or you can kind of connect yourself with people that sell in a way that feels better for you and for your nervous system.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's a lot of. There's a lot of us around that have the same values.
Speaker 2:But, you know, we're maybe not the loudest people on the internet because we're doing our little things yeah, finding a coach that, like you guys, click on that sales level, yeah, I think that matters so much. Yeah, because then you can figure out where it's going wrong for you like, like I'm trying this, I know it's going to work, but something needs to be tweaked.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my coaches specifically. So I know it may not seem like it, I'm a very introverted writer, but I'm very introverted and her whole approach was like she's for introverts, empaths and highly sensitive people. And so after working with her, I was like, oh my God, this is empaths and highly sensitive people.
Speaker 2:And so after working with her, I was like, oh, my god, this is why I hate going to the grocery store. Oh my god, like I didn't know it all makes sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but it was like all of the energy management stuff that she was kind of teaching me that like I think some people in my family still think I'm an extrovert, which is not true, so it's. It's very interesting like working with someone that the values and how they sell, like a lot of the like. Think about it. Okay, if I'm an introvert and an empath and a highly sensitive person, sales calls are like not a great energy giving thing for me. So that's kind of how we built my sales ecosystem to make more sense for me, my personality style, but also like the function of my business. I'm a writer, so it's hard for me to, you know, do a couple hours of work and then do a sales call or, you know, do a podcast interview and then jump right back in. Like that it doesn't make sense for what I'm doing. So finding a coach that can really honor who you are and what you are and how you prefer to work, I think is really important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really want to highlight that too, and so many entrepreneurs or people who want to be an entrepreneur feel like they have to fit into somebody else's box. But really it's about finding the systems that work for you and your energy levels and how you think, and once you find that, everything will feel natural and it will flow.
Speaker 3:Yes, it doesn't work. There's a lot of coaching that I think with and it's definitely still happening. It was giving like 2020, 2021 coaching industry MLM vibes. It was like, oh, I made all this money doing this thing, so now I'm going to teach you how I did it. And you're like, well, first off, I'm not extrovert extreme, so that's like 90% of what you're about to teach me is actually terrible, and I've invested in coaches like that where it's like cool, I learned one way and one marketing strategy and ecosystem that does work.
Speaker 3:But for someone like me, I don't want to send 20 DMs and I don't want to have a spreadsheet of like every lead ever that I'm connected with like that. The minutiae of that is just totally draining. So it's it's understanding and I think there's there's definitely something about individual coaching, bespoke styles, where it really incorporates who you are, even just the nature of your business, what you're trying to do. Like I don't I'm not trying to be the next version of your business, I'm kind of just trying to build my own thing and I need support with the mental stuff, the spiritual stuff, the emotional, all of the like interpersonal, client sending boundaries, like all of this stuff, the other things that you know, the day-toto-day like, I'll say, like personal operations to get it, get it moving at. You know, I have good business sense, but I need someone to hold me accountable, to like, no, this is what we're building. Like we don't need to go build, you know, an email newsletter with 50 000 subscribers and like a shitty digital product at the back end.
Speaker 2:Like that's not my thing yeah, yeah, and you see somebody else who's doing it super successfully and you're like maybe me too, maybe, maybe me too, in our own way, and then you get distracted.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh my gosh, the distract, the lack of focus and distraction is is another another thing too, because it's, it's, it's so challenging because you, you want to be and have the same results as the, as other people. But again, the nuance, they may not be telling you the whole story, they might may not, you know, have had the same starting place that you did like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, there's so much there's just too much that's not confirmed, truly confirmed yeah, yeah, I constantly talk about how much I hate when someone has a very specific framework and you have to go through each one of their steps and they're like, well, if it's not working for you, then you're try harder where it's like no, this isn't for me, it's not going to work for my personality. I need something that fits me and the way I work. Yeah, I just think hard, concrete ways, processes of moving people through like to get the same accomplishment as you got. They don't. It doesn't work. It needs to be custom for the person.
Speaker 3:Totally, totally agree. Retweet that one for sure, yeah boop, that was my retweet button.
Speaker 2:Yeah, love, let's get to five. What is this fifth? Yeah, storytelling one.
Speaker 3:The fifth, one other than the money making testimonials and, like the client case studies, arguably the most important, the one that people never talk about, is your origin story. So everyone, especially in your business evolution, I know this was true for me. You know we tend to discount the things that we've learned over the years. So for a really long time I didn't talk about how, yes, I have a ghostwriting business. I also flash forward to me like my first job. Out of college.
Speaker 3:I had a very like fluke of a first job. I was in the C-suite of a Fortune 100 company, ghostwriting for a senior executive. I was 21. Like couldn't make it up. I got all the experience in the world at like the highest place you could possibly be ghostwriting at from a corporate perspective. Yeah, you lucked out.
Speaker 3:I like really truly fluke of a first job. They should never have given me that. I was like nearly a drinking age, but there, you know that was a huge part of my story and kind of how, looking back, I'm like, oh well, I was already kind of doing this and I was doing this at a different level where, you know, I did have the kind of corporate cushion where I could experiment more and I got to see a whole lot, especially because we were doing a lot of internal communication. So I kind of got to see like crash course, how does this work at a really young age? The other thing most people don't know that I talk about sometimes, but definitely not as much as I while working full time, I had a corporate, corporate job. I got a master's in PR, specifically an internal and executive communications, which is, spoiler alert ghostwriting yeah, exactly what you're doing that's what that is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, pr for an executive, that's what that is. But I didn't think because I just thought like, okay, well, once you're an entrepreneur, you only earn your stripes from what you do in this one business concept and and that's it. Not realizing, like my origin story, that's so important. Like when I started talking about that, people were like, man, that makes me feel like 20 times better hiring you because you've at least seen more stuff. Or like you've, you know, you've studied this, you've, you've taken the reps in and you've done all of this. My coach, she has a really great juicy origin story, because it's this, it's the thing you can't replicate no no one else is going to have the story that you have and that's the magic.
Speaker 3:That's, that's one of the best ways to key into why you do the things that you do.
Speaker 3:But, like my coach and business introvert and highly sensitive person, she'll say, like the reason she's so good at her job is she was an air traffic controller for like 10 years and so and she actually tells this story She'll say that she had this client that wanted to work with her after finding out that she was an air traffic controller and the reason this client signed on to work with her was because they said that's someone's brain that I want on my business.
Speaker 3:Like your brain, the things that you're good at and the past experience you have. Like you know, yes, you might be a coach or a consultant, but like that thing, whatever that special experience, they're either super connected to it from a values perspective or they're like you know, I don't know a lot about air traffic control, but you know, you definitely know about complexity like that. That's the thing that I think a lot of people, I think people think you know I'm supposed to talk about. You know, this is why I started my business. It's usually because you left a corporate job or you got laid off during the pandemic like.
Speaker 2:We know your story because it's all of our story.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know I well, and for a while, like I, when I first started I was like, oh yeah, I like got tired of my corporate job, that that was my origin story, that I used a lot, and then I just kept scrolling and I was like shit, they have the same one, they have the same. I was like, okay, this is, this is not gonna work, like we're gonna have to find something else, but that that's the. The thing is like no, no one could possibly have my origin story and the combination. There's so many different backstories to things as well, in different ways, not just from the business owner's perspective either, or why the business got started. It's also a really great way to talk about your offers and the origin story of your offer, like why did you create this?
Speaker 3:Well, you probably saw a gap in the market. Why was this so important? What were you noticing in your clients that you know they were struggling with that no one else seemed to you know get solved. Why did you do it in this way? Tell me why you created it in this way. Certain benefits, certain specs. That origin story is again besides kind of client testimonials. That is kind of the magic, I think that kind of weaves into every, every business and every story that you could be telling, because it's something that no one else is going to have, it's in. It's impossible for anyone to have the same combination as you and if they do, you're not looking hard enough. You got to do a little more soul searching because there's definitely there's. I sit all day, every day, writing origin stories for people and I'm just like dude, this is juicy. Like there's there's just a million and one ways to to spin it and talk about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there there are. I write a lot of LinkedIn profiles for my clients and that's one of the things that I have, and usually their experience section is the origin story of what made them the person that they are today. That launched the thing that they're doing and they're so fun and interesting yeah, well, no, origin stories are great too, because what?
Speaker 3:what's actually underneath them? Again, those, those like universal themes the more specific we are, they resonate on a universal level. Origin stories are so fun because you can tell it 20 different ways, just with different stories or different values. And so, like I could tell you my origin story, but I'm using it through the lens of authenticity, maybe I'm using it through a lens of rebellion, maybe I'm using it through a lens of abundance, like there's a million different ways to tell you know, why you started something, why you created an offer, and those values and the lens that you choose to tell that story through are the things that are going to resonate with someone.
Speaker 3:And again, it's that specificity of someone being like man that was really interesting to me, or that, really, you know, I think we all kind of have seasonal themes or things that we're kind of into, and I think that is what really attracts people into our ether, whether they're ready to invest. You know, today, right, this second, or you know they need nine years yeah, you know so to finally convert. You know, we don't we don't really ever know angst as to why I left, but also, like that shaped a lot of what I learned and a lot of what I didn't want to bring with me into building a business. So there's, there's almost like this healing process that can happen again a little bit more internally. It doesn't mean you have to go, you know, blast your vulnerabilities and your past traumas, but there's a lot of healing then and when you own all the parts of you, that's the thing that allows you to become whole and kind of propel yourself forward can also help you reframe your past.
Speaker 2:If it was something that was uncomfortable or bad at the moment, it helps you see it through a new lens because that experience led you to the business that you have today. Like my origin story is, I was a one person marketing department for a seven company group and I was overwhelmed.
Speaker 2:I had seven presidents. It was very hard, but it also allowed me the space to build a framework that worked really well for them, and then I was able to replicate it for other clients. So while at the time I was like, oh my God, what did I get myself into? Now I'm like thank God I did, because I had to be scrappy and figure out how to make it all work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but lessons learned story. That's what people want to hear.
Speaker 2:You know they want to hear the virgin story.
Speaker 3:They want to hear, like, what you learned about that? And I think, yeah, the more we can own. You know I really believe in like neuroplasticity. You know we have a lot of trauma we store in our bodies. We can reheal it, we can rewire our brains and that is part of the the process too, like, I think, doing a kind of retroactive look at what you, where you came from.
Speaker 3:Also, if you're like going through a tough season, it's also the thing that's gonna, you know, hopefully create a little bit of a spark and be like, okay, you know, I said I survived what I thought was going to be the worst day of my life or the worst season of my life. And you know, I can see it may still have some darkness, but there is some light there as well, and I think that is kind of, I think that's what hope feels like. You know, in a season, or you know, after closing something down or stopping an offer or a launch flop or whatever else, like you, it always leads to something better. It may not feel like it at the time, but I think that is, you know, I think that's what hope and you know, maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I think that's, that's that kind of like inner work of being an entrepreneur that really needs to be taking place to get the kind of results and more alignment you, you know, going into whatever the next era is, yeah.
Speaker 2:It took me a long time to realize that too, when something didn't work out. Now I'm looking at it with curiosity instead of disappointment, like what is the lesson there? What is it that I Even?
Speaker 3:just accepting right off and, like you know, move on. I feel like I have to, like, really just sit in it, and this is something else that I write a lot subconsciously under the radar, if you didn't know what to look for. I write a lot about grief is what I actually. You know, if you were to pull back and I were to really reveal Spoiler, that's what's actually happening here. I write a lot about grief and I write a lot about joy and abundance.
Speaker 3:And I think, like most entrepreneurs, who wants to feel grief, who wants to feel depressed, who wants to feel sad, like it's a really crappy feeling and it can feel like you can't get yourself out of it? But grief is also this is like my storyteller memoirist side coming out. But grief is also a death and a rebirth cycle memoirist side coming out. But grief is also a death and a rebirth cycle. So when you can grieve, you know the past. That is also the thing. Take with it what you would like into the next birth or rebirth. That is the case for anything. It could be an offer, a business concept, it could be a career change, it could be a relationship like like that.
Speaker 3:That is, grief is like death and rebirth, and so I think that that work it's not fun to sit with and you can't ai prompt your way out of it like you have to actually sit feelings, but I think that's an important part of the the storytelling process as well, and kind of what adds richness to what you're sharing makes me think of tarot when you pull the death card. Oh, my god, no, for me it's. Anytime I pull the tower I'm like like I don't want it, I don't want it.
Speaker 2:So many people think that the death card is bad, but really it's like the beginning of a new chapter. It's a rebirth, truly truly yeah, and it's.
Speaker 3:it's tough to hold, though I mean who? Who wants to feel like you know something failed, or like something you know can't continue? It's it's hard to sit with, but it's, you know, death and rebirth it's no different than OK. It's you know time to clear out some spring cleaning. You're going to go through, get rid of the, the clutter in your house that you don't want anymore, and you're going donate some of it. Well, that creates space for something new and it feels good once it's over.
Speaker 2:It was good once it's over. Yeah, you have to move through. Yeah, you could be.
Speaker 3:I I will say, you know, one of my, one of my quirks is I'm not the best at actually dropping this stuff off at goodwill, so I'll like sitting in your trunk, sitting in my trunk for a little bit. It's fine, but it's at least out of the apartment so you can't really feel it. But, um, yeah, I think it's. It's allowing yourself to kind of grow and evolve and like we can't, I hope you know, stay the same level all the time. We have to to allow ourselves to clear out what isn't serving us and create space for whatever is new. That could be clients, that could be certain offers, that could be pricing, that could be and anything like nothing is off the table. And if there's one thing I've learned, it's like I expect the unexpected.
Speaker 3:Yeah, evolution is inevitable yeah, grow or die, and die is not, and so buckle up, baby.
Speaker 3:I don't know what to tell you yeah, get real comfortable with change if you're in business, if you're an entrepreneur, yeah, seriously, every week something different, but that is part of I think there's a certain type of person that is resilient enough to do this for a living, and it doesn't mean it's not tough, but it's you being resilient and strong and able to navigate the highs and the lows. And that's what people whether it's clients, whether it's customers, whether it's you looking for someone to work with those are kind of, for me, the big indicators that come with the.
Speaker 2:the job description, yeah god, I have definitely become a stronger person because of it, because when I started it was very uncomfortable yeah, yeah it's.
Speaker 3:It's a tough job, for sure. Like it's, it's still one of the harder things I've ever had to do in my life, but wouldn't change it for a day, wouldn't. Wouldn't change it. There's some seasons where I'm like that was scrappy but I did not enjoy that. Yeah, that was not my funnest time, but we're still living to tell the tale and there's value in that. So you know, live to die another day. That's what I tell myself all the time, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's probably like the innate optimism that lives in all of us that keeps us going, Like it's bad right now but tomorrow will be better. It's that visionary entrepreneur.
Speaker 3:It's really helpful sometimes, yeah.
Speaker 2:So can you tell the audience how they can work with you and find you online?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, as far as working with me, I go straight, mostly content in the storytelling format. So most clients work with me either on a LinkedIn content retainer or email newsletters or both. So I definitely have a certain kind of style. I'm definitely more kind of direct quippy. I kind of write like a talk and so most of my clients tend to be like very, yeah, a certain type of humor style.
Speaker 3:But it's really fun to write a lot of email welcome series for email newsletters, especially if you're trying to figure out how to tell it in a way that's storytelling and selling. That is another big thing that I write for clients or some sales pages or service pages for websites a lot of times as well, but definitely more in the content. You know name of the game and working with my clients to build a content library. So filling in the gaps, especially like what is the content that's out here that we still need to have in your six-month library, is really what I try to get my clients to.
Speaker 3:And then, as far as where to see me online, I'm on LinkedIn, pretty active over there, and then I write a newsletter called Wallflower Fridays similar vibe to kind of I mean just how I speak basically, but I always try to tell some story from my life where I pull inspiration from like books that I'm reading, movies that I'm watching. I last week this is like so embarrassing but last week I sent one about Disney Descendants which has been my like hyper fixation, which is actually a banger of a storytelling, and so I kind of went into like why, why it works. Um, but if you want to read wallflower fridays, you can sign up for that at wallflowerfridayscom very nice, and now I have to go check that out.
Speaker 3:I have to just think I might not heard of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh my god it is. I will really and truly go off. I'm like I like it was supposed to be a joke, like my YouTube algorithm like was really showing me this stuff. And then I was watching it and I was like, oh my god, they're like talking about I'm I'm healing from like narcissistic abuse right now. And so like, oh my god, the first movie is like all about healing from narcissists. What's up, it was like it knew. And then I'm like looking at this, I'm like, oh my god, this is like very woke art what is happening. And now I'm like it's so embarrassing.
Speaker 3:This is like I would normally tell my email list that you know not people on a podcast, but like I'm reread, I'm reading. There's like prequel books, I'm reading the children's prequel books for these busy movies. But the the music is great. It's directed by Kenny Ortega, who did a high school musical, um, I don't know. It's really fun and it's been like a really joyful experience and it's it's the backstory of the villains and the you're a Disney's villain, so it's the kids of the villains, the descendants, but it's fun, it's super fun. It's super nostalgic, like the values and the themes, like if you want to talk about universal themes like I'm.
Speaker 3:I'm literally sitting here watching this, I'm crying and I'm like, oh my god, they're healing from narcissistic parents, like holy shit, like it's. It's just, I think, really well written, it's campy, it's hokey, like it's fine. The music in the second one is like we're playing it a lot right now. You know, I'm just listening to it a lot, but it's a fun like kind of I don't know just it's. It's a little bit different, it's it's kind of playful or whatever. But yeah, you can watch it. Well, we have it. So I'm going to try it out. Yeah, well, tell me how it goes, because I'm like I said, I'm reading the books. We're deep in it, so we're there.
Speaker 2:I will. I will let you know. Thank you so much for joining me today. This talk was way longer than my normal ones. I heard every bit of it. Thank you. All right, that was a long one, but it was a good one.
Speaker 2:So, now that this episode is over, this is what I want you to do Audit your content. Does every post that you've created in the last seven days, let's say, subtly sell? Are you hinting or nodding, or threading your offer into the content and the stories that you're telling? Incorporate storytelling in your marketing, particularly around client case studies, so people can visualize themselves in the place of your current clients. Clarify your messaging to both attract and repel potential clients. It will save you so much time on unnecessary sales calls.
Speaker 2:Build a streamlined sales process that works for you. So everybody's sales process is a little different. You need it to work for the life that you have and your business and your offers. So build one that you actually love and, last, embrace the long game. Nurture leads so they become ready to work with you. So one way you can do that is through DMs, which you learned in episode 122. If you haven't listened to that, go back in time one week to that one and another way is in the inbox. So I recently released an email marketing kit that I think you'll love, and it shows five different email sequences, templates and their plug and play. They show you examples on how you can sell after a freebie or after a client has ghosted you, or how to get more butts in seats when you're hosting a free event. So there's five email sequence, all designed to nurture your leads and pull them through and help them become clients you love all things tiny marketing.
Speaker 1:Head down to the show notes page and sign up for the wait list to join the tiny marketing club, where you get to work one on one with me with trainings, feedback and pop up coaching. That will help you scale your marketing as a B2B service business. So I'll see you over in the club.
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