Head over to leadfeeder.com and sign up for a 14-day (no strings attached) free trial!
In this episode, Sarah Noel Block shares her incredible experience with Knapsack Creative's web design process and Savanna reveals the secrets behind it. Discover how their efficient, collaborative approach and structured project management lead to seamless client experiences. Learn how you can apply these principles to your own projects.
Key Takeaways:
Meet Savanna:
Savanna is the Director of Knapsack Creative, a Squarespace web design company that's on a mission to create the world's best web design experience. She began working at Knapsack in 2018 as an "intern" (they weren't hiring, so she offered to start coming in for free). She eventually was hired on as a web designer and for several years, Savanna cranked out websites for Knapsack. In 2022 she took over for the founder, Ben Manley, to run the day to day. Now she brings her background in design and experience building hundreds of sites to perfect the systems and processes for the business. When she’s not meeting with new clients or heading up new initiatives, she can be found exploring Lynchburg with her husband, going for walks in nature, or enjoying a day out on the lake.
Website
Website: https://www.sarahnoelblock.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahnoelblock/
Newsletter: https://tinymarketing.me/newsletter
Tiny Marketing Community
Click here to ask a question about the episode
Head over to leadfeeder.com and sign up for a 14-day (no strings attached) free trial!
In this episode, Sarah Noel Block shares her incredible experience with Knapsack Creative's web design process and Savanna reveals the secrets behind it. Discover how their efficient, collaborative approach and structured project management lead to seamless client experiences. Learn how you can apply these principles to your own projects.
Key Takeaways:
Meet Savanna:
Savanna is the Director of Knapsack Creative, a Squarespace web design company that's on a mission to create the world's best web design experience. She began working at Knapsack in 2018 as an "intern" (they weren't hiring, so she offered to start coming in for free). She eventually was hired on as a web designer and for several years, Savanna cranked out websites for Knapsack. In 2022 she took over for the founder, Ben Manley, to run the day to day. Now she brings her background in design and experience building hundreds of sites to perfect the systems and processes for the business. When she’s not meeting with new clients or heading up new initiatives, she can be found exploring Lynchburg with her husband, going for walks in nature, or enjoying a day out on the lake.
Website
Website: https://www.sarahnoelblock.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahnoelblock/
Newsletter: https://tinymarketing.me/newsletter
Tiny Marketing Community
Click here to ask a question about the episode
All right, let's show off, get this done and then, by the end of the day, yeah, you have a completed website, we'll launch it, you know, when they're ready. And so, yeah, it's very time-locked, it's very efficient and it's very collaborative.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello. This is Sarah Noel Block, and you're listening to Tiny Marketing. Have you ever had an experience that just gave you the warm-and-fuzzies? You worked with a contractor or an employee and it just was so easy that you couldn't stop thinking about it. You actually, at the end of the day, were like I am so glad that I have, you know, $5,000 less money because I got to experience that with that person. That's how I felt after using NAPSAC Creative for my recent website redesign. I enjoyed the experience so much that I had to dig in more.
Speaker 2:I reached out to the team at NAPSAC, and specifically Savannah, who is my designer, and I begged her please tell me how you create that amazing client experience. And she sat down with me to give me the lowdown the ins and outs, from beginning to end, on how they craft such a beautiful client experience. And we're sharing that conversation today. So get out your notebook. Enjoy the fact that you are about to get a masterclass on how to create a seamless experience for your clients or even your company. This can be applied to any sort of project that you're doing, so whether you're in-house or you are a marketer or a solo entrepreneur and you're doing client stuff. You can apply this process that she's teaching me today into your projects and I'm telling you now I'm going to steal a bunch of this. So when you're working with me and you're like, hmm, this sounds familiar, this is the reason. It's because I'm stealing Savannah's SOPs right now. All right, stay tuned. We're talking to Savannah from NAPSAC Creative in just a moment. Hey there, fellow entrepreneurs and B2B marketers, before we dive back into the conversation, let me introduce you to a game changer in the lead generation arena Leadfeeder.
Speaker 2:Now, we all know the struggle of identifying those elusive website visitors and turning them into valuable leads. But what if I told you there's a tool that not only promises but delivers on supercharging your lead generation and sales efforts? Enter Leadfeeder. Imagine having the power to identify companies visiting your website, track their behavior in real time and seamlessly integrate it all with your CRM. Leadfeeder is not just a tool. It's your secret weapon for efficient and targeted lead engagement. What sets Leadfeeder apart? It's the ability to provide detailed insights into visitor behavior, helping your sales team prioritize efforts and close deals faster. With customizable notifications, lead scoring and GDPR compliance, leadfeeder is changing the game. Ready to revolutionize your approach to leads and deals? Head over to Leadfeedercom for your free demo today. That's L-E-A-D-F-E-E-D-E-Rcom. Don't miss out on the future of successfully generation with Leadfeeder.
Speaker 2:I used NAPSAC for my website redesign. If you want to check it out, that work is theirs. Savannah was my designer. The reason I reached out to ask her to be on the show is because I freaking loved the experience that I had. It was so seamless and easy. It put me in a position where I couldn't fail, because I'm pulled in a thousand different directions being a solopreneur. She made it so easy for me to do my homework on time and make sure that the project ran on time and I wasn't ruining her opportunity to do a good job.
Speaker 2:That's awesome yeah they're super fun to work together. We are digging into the experience today because I was obsessed with it. I was just trying to reverse engineer how you guys do what you do. Can you tell me how you guys came up with, or first describe the experience that clients go through, and then we can dig into the backend of it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally Well, yeah, like I said, we're a Squarespace web design agency, so we build Squarespace websites for our clients and we do it in as little as a day. So it's the big process piece. We're just very big on process and systems, like I said, and we're trying to create the world-best web design experience. It's our thing that we're just constantly pursuing In terms of the experience and what a client goes through and feel free to chime in, since he went through it, I will.
Speaker 1:But first we'll meet with somebody to just make sure they're a good fit. We're really big on making sure that somebody is going to align with our process. It's not for everybody because it is pretty fast-paced and you do have to be a quick decision maker and all of that. We also want to make sure Squarespace is a good fit. But essentially, once they've onboarded into our process, we give them a project map which basically lays out all the steps in the process. So it's really clear they know exactly what to expect and what's happening when with calendar, invites and things on the calendar and really the bulk of the process For the client.
Speaker 1:Once they've done their homework, we have a pretty organized intake prep guide. But then essentially we'll have a one-hour meeting to review the prep guide. So that's like, hey, this is when your homework's due, you're going to meet with your designer over in your chat, and so it just creates clarity around a due date and I think for everybody just all humans we need that. So that review section is when we review the prep guide. So basically, just look at all their homework, get on the same page, make sure we have everything we need to complete the process, and then about a week later we do what we call the design day. Sometimes there's a couple design days if it's a bigger site, but I think for your site we just did one design day. Is that right, sarah?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did the whole thing in one day, boom.
Speaker 1:We did one day.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's our most common package, and so what that looks like is we actually are building the site throughout the day.
Speaker 1:We do do some prep work ahead of time, so it's not entirely that day, but we're basically meeting over video chat, screen sharing, asking for feedback, and then we're jumping off for a couple hours building the next page, getting feedback, and so it's very collaborative and fast-paced. And so I mentioned it's not for everybody, because if people need a lot of time to think over their decisions or the shade of blue that we're using or the icons, it's probably not a good fit. Because we're all about efficiency. We're like, all right, let's show up, get this done, and then by the end of the day, yeah, you have a completed website, we'll launch it when they're ready, and so, yeah, it's very time-locked, it's very efficient and it's very collaborative. We hate the idea of emailing back and forwards for weeks and weeks and getting feedback that way. Or else we're like, let's get on video chat, let's talk, let's get this done in terms of making decisions and all that. So that's high level. Yeah, anything that you would add just having gone through it or anything I miss?
Speaker 2:Yes, oh well, I noticed. So we had our fit call to see if I made sense to work with your agency and how you guys work. And then at the kickoff call, that's when you went over what homework I would need and we kind of picked out what package I would need if we could actually get it done in a day and what is the tool that you used for collecting the content that you needed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we have Content Snare and we've kind of built out like a custom thing in Content Snare, which is an amazing tool, for I mean, it works for lots of different industries. So yeah, contentsnarecom.
Speaker 2:That's right. I told so many people about it after, after we worked together, I was like Content Snare. It's amazing. Yeah, pretty powerful, yeah. The other thing that I noticed is the vast majority of the website was done before our design day, and what we did in like the first call of the day was just go through the details, like where I wanted specific changes, but the vast majority was done like I don't know, the house was built. It was just like picking paint colors and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you gave us a lot to work with. I would say that is contingent on how much like branding elements we have to work with. Sometimes if somebody doesn't have anything, then we're making more of those decisions in the day. But you had an amazing brand to work with and you're very organized. So, yes, you are able to just respond to. We could get a lot of work done on the front end and then you could kind of react to what we were showing you.
Speaker 2:So, yes, yeah, it was really really easy process. What did I want to say about that? Oh, the nice thing, though, is that with a lot of times when you hear VIP day, people think that they have to be synchronous and that they're on all day long, but I was able to work all day. I think we connected twice throughout the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, people have asked like do I have to be? Because we actually the calendar invited like a full time block because we do want people to be available in case we need to meet more times. But usually that happens where people are like yeah, I blocked off the whole day. I thought maybe I would have to be on video chat longer, but like I got a ton of other stuff, definitely.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and it's nice because you're not scheduling other meetings, so you can actually get work done in between working on your website.
Speaker 1:So our secret way of doing you yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was helpful. I'm like I'm sorry, I'm busy that day Cannot meet. I want to go backwards in time, though, so let's talk from that. So we had the fit call. You were like, okay, I think she can be fast paced and work with us. And then you guys gave me content snare, where I provided copywriting and the examples of the websites I liked and things like that. But the thing that was really cool is that you had mapped out the project, so I knew exactly what to look, what it would look like. So explain that to me. They're not all custom, I'm sure, so you probably have pre-designed workflows that you're working with. How did that work?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it makes it nice because we're web designers, so that's actually a store-based website that we built. So we have all the tools and whatnot to essentially create that page. But yeah, it's basically a page where it has like the five steps in the process and then each section just describes the different steps. It's actually really nice because our process doesn't change and so we really are able to use one template to just duplicate for all of our different projects. The only thing that changes is the number of design days, and so for the design day spot in the process, you know, maybe someone would have three different design days and we just write those out in the calendar.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's basically something we built in Squarespace. We made it branded to our own brand and colors and whatnot. And basically our project manager every time we have a project onboarded which is pretty frequently because our turn out time is pretty quick we did it to be like really easy she just duplicates a page in Squarespace, plugs in dates and name and customizes it a little bit. Pretty minimal, so I would say like I don't know she would know better, but maybe like 10 minutes of work each time where she's just having to update links and text and whatnot?
Speaker 2:That's cool. I'm going to totally steal that idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have a Squarespace site. I do, I do.
Speaker 2:I kind of take that with when I'm podcast guesting and I'll have a landing page that I just duplicate and change out the certain information I need for that specific podcast so I can track conversion rates from those experiences. But I'm guessing it's similar. Does it live on your website or do you have a separate domain? I can't remember what the domain was for that anymore.
Speaker 1:It's mapnapfactcreativecom, so it's a separate Squarespace site. The reason we did that if you're only going to have like a dozen of them or so a year that need to be active, it could live on your existing site. However, we have like 100 over the last few years, yeah, and we like to put them just in case, like a client wants to reference their training video link from the past project or whatever, and so, because we have so many, we just decided to create a separate site. So, yeah, it is a separate Squarespace site. Keep it clean With Squarespace. Yeah, we already have way too many pages in our existing site, so yeah, that would be insane.
Speaker 2:Hundreds of pages on your website, bah yeah. Do you keep them private then, so they're not searchable?
Speaker 1:Yeah they're not searchable, like even the subdomain. If you go there like there's not even yeah, it's none of it can be found or anything like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense. It's private, personalized for the company that you're working with. Now you mentioned time blocking, so how does that work when you are front loading and doing parts of the website ahead of time?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I mean I can first just share, like how we time block the projects because that might be useful, and then kind of get into like how we actually break up the pieces of work without being helpful. Yeah, that's perfect, yeah, cool. So I mean, we've basically figured out a way to scope out the work so we can kind of predict okay, this package needs this amount of time and we have a scoping tool and a very predictable set of processes, you know. So we have a checklist that we go through every single time and that process doesn't change.
Speaker 1:Of course there's variables and challenges and things that you need to time manage, but the nice thing for our calendar is pretty rigid, where Tuesdays and Thursdays are our project days and so, no matter what those are when design days get booked, I don't think we've ever had in like 11, 12 years a Monday or Wednesday project, which is just so funny. And then Monday or Wednesdays are our meeting days and then Fridays are strictly internal days, so we actually don't do any client work. So you can look at the month of March and say, okay, all these Tuesdays and Thursdays are available slots for these different designers, we know when people are off and all of that and then essentially it's really easy to schedule and book and whatnot, because our day pack package is one design day. So our project manager knows, okay, you know March 5th is going to be for this person and so anyways, there's just a lot of predictability when you get into time blocking, because it is pretty rigid and systematic, if you will. But then in terms of how we break it up, it really is our process and our checklist. I mean it would be overwhelming to show that you won the check with, because there's just a lot of different steps but it's all broken up in the process.
Speaker 1:So the designer knows, okay, what do I need to do before my review session? And so there's some prep work for the site and even that is time blocked. So you have two hours before your review session. So there's literally a three hour block. So the vendor preps for two hours and then they meet with the client for one hour and then the prep time is time blocked, so that's about four hours. We only need one or two hours, but there's at least four hours on the day before the design day, which is a Monday or Wednesday, and then there's the seven, eight hour block during the design day. So literally everything has a time stamp and again, I think because of our scoping tool, there are times where we underquote and I always feel really bad about it, or which package they would choose, just like oh, this one probably could have used more time.
Speaker 1:So yeah, on which package? But the designer has buffer time, so that's the other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you feel bad because you are the person who is deciding the time frame. I got it now, sorry.
Speaker 1:That was my bad, but I think a big part of time blocking is creating buffer, because you need margin for error. So we say Fridays are only for internal time. However, they're also a really nice buffer day if, for some reason, a designer needs a couple extra hours. So that's kind of how it all happens on the calendar. Really, everything is just pre-scheduled and our designers are very trained in our process and so super predictable for them, like they can look weeks ahead in advance and know all right, these two hours I'm prepping for my review session. This day I'm doing a design day. This day I'm prepping, so there's basically just time blocks throughout the process and so we're able to get that work done the day before the design day and kind of come, like you said, with some more stuff to show. So it makes the design day less stressful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so okay, I'm going to reiterate for the listeners. So four hours before the design day they have time to like, prepare the skeleton site, we'll say, or a first draft site, and then they have the review day and they do. They have a two hour time block before the call starts and that's for just going through their checklist.
Speaker 2:They have the items that they need to go through and then they have the review call and then they have eight to nine hours during the day to do any of the revisions or design work that they have to do based off of the review call, and then you have a wrap up call right at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:There's not a call, or yes during the design day. Yeah, that would be within like the eight or so hour day. Yeah, there would be a wrap-up call yeah.
Speaker 2:So the wrap-up call I'm remembering back to my experience happened towards it was like in the afternoon, after we had squared everything away and you're like any changes, I'm like no, and then we would hit publish. So that's how that would happen. So if that wrap-up call in the afternoon they're like I have major changes actually, what would you do then? That's?
Speaker 1:a great question. I get asked that pretty frequently. We ideally have some different like you know what do you call them? Fail stops before that, Like, in other words, conversations that we're already having where we feel like we're really on the same page and we're constantly checking in.
Speaker 1:We're really big on clear communication Like, hey, how are you feeling about things? Is this heading in the right direction? We, I mean, I can't think of a time, probably even like one time, that I can think of where it just this didn't happen. But it's very rare that we're not on the same page and heading in the right direction in terms of the overall style and because we're having those little meetings throughout and showing progress, we're not going to get so far ahead with the design or a style that the client's like whoa, this was not what I was expecting at all.
Speaker 1:If, for some reason, the client is like I'm just having second thoughts, like I, instead of this illustrated style, I actually want to use all photos, they usually know that that's kind of like on them and that it was like something that, OK, you know, we are going to need to book more time. So, really like the short answer is that we would just book more time, but I'm. The caveat is that it's pretty rare that we get to the end of the day and they're like this isn't what I wanted, because we've been collaborating for hours and hours.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, I always call those micro-yeses in projects, making sure you're getting a micro-yes at little intervals within the project so you know you're in the right direction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's exactly it Micro-yeses. I love that. I'll steal that.
Speaker 2:Good, because I'm stealing this process.
Speaker 1:I love that we talked about how the process has translated to a lot of the work that you do. It's just really cool when I hear that, because we have a copywriter friend that has kind of extrapolated a lot of our process into you know, she does like copywriting in a day, and so I think it's just really cool because it's not only like a win for clients but it's also a win Like I think you've experienced positive. Yeah, I asked how you work and what you're on time blocking and even like predictable revenue is kind of nice Like. Ok, I know on these days I'm, you know, knocking out these projects, so it's just cool, but there's been some stealing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, any time I it's rare that I really really love an experience that I've had, and any time it happens I'm like what pieces of that can I pull into my process?
Speaker 1:It's smart. Yeah, we do the same thing.
Speaker 2:OK, so what was I going to ask you Specifically? I wanted to ask you this isn't the question that I had in mind right now, but I'm going to go with that anyway what tools do you use throughout it, like project management? I know you use content snare for gathering the information ahead of time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Astana is a big project management tool. So our project manager lives in Astana in terms of moving the client through our process. So send the invoice, add the calendar date, all those different pieces that she has to do from a high level, so Astana is a big one. Then all of our file storage is in Dropbox. So Dropbox paper, which is like the Google Doc version, of course, has become where all of our other checklists and whatnot live. So we basically have a paper doc. So picture like an online blank document for every single client. So we have one called Tiny Marketing and each time we're pasting in that same checklist. So we have a discovery meeting checklist, we have a content review session checklist, we have a design day checklist, we have a site launch checklist, and it just goes on and on. So we paste that in every time, or I think it's actually a template that our project manager just creates each time. So basically, a designer knows, okay, they look at their calendar, they have Tiny Marketing on their calendar and they just go to that paper doc and they can have it up and just basically start knocking things out.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I would say Astana and Dropbox paper are the big ones. We really like Dropbox paper for our design process because it gives us a lot more flexibility to take notes and move things around and make it our own. I don't know how familiar you are with Astana, but we tried to move everything into Astana when we moved over to it, but it's not as fluid and flexible like it's really great at having organized checkboxes, but in Dropbox paper we can literally have a bunch of note under one specific checkmark and have notes from the client and feedback that we need to rest. So, yeah, I would say those are our two big ones. We slack for all of our internal communication, but I feel like that's a given. Slack is pretty popular among teams these days.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think maybe two years ago I moved to Teamwork for project management and it does allow you to put in notes and everything within those little tasks. Okay, good to know. Teamwork Mm-hmm. Teamwork it's nice for agencies too, because all of the billing can be in there too, so you understand how profitable the project is. Yeah, good to know. I'll check that out. Teamwork oh, and it has its own version of Slack in there. Okay.
Speaker 1:Cool, so everything could be in one place. Yeah, we have thought about moving to something that we've looked at Notion and we've looked at a couple other software that could consolidate things a bit more. So I think that could be a future. Maybe Put it on the list Q3, 4.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Check it out. I've heard good things about Notion. It's more of a wiki for SOPs. I mean that sounds like something that could be beneficial for you too, since you guys are killing it with your processes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks, yeah. No, we're always wide open to process improvements and what not. I think we're frequently always looking at like, okay, who came out with a better software than what we're using, and all that? Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Good tip. Yeah, I'm always talking about how I'm like the chronic beta tester. If something's out, I will try it. I will dig in that I will. Yeah Good, I have a lot of logins. I probably have thousands of logins out there.
Speaker 1:I know, yeah, One password is like our life saver, because you know we have a civilian login all in one place.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I know me too. I would be screwed without a password manager. Okay, is there anything that we missed? And if not, can you tell people how they can work with knapsack?
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's see. Is there anything that we missed? Yeah, I think that pretty much covers everything In terms of how people can work with NAPSAC. You can go to our website, NAPSACcreativecom. On our website, there is a schedule, a meeting, with a designer button across the site and you can actually fill out that form and we would set up a discovery meeting and so that would be a good way that people can reach us. We're also on Instagram and Facebook not super active currently. Sorry, we left it. We are there.
Speaker 2:Oh, and you guys are podcast.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah. So Ben Manley is our founder. He has a podcast called the Friday Habit and so it's really great for talking about systems and processes and basically making your business more efficient and whatnot. So, yeah, you can check out that podcast, the Friday Habit, and hear from Ben.
Speaker 2:I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Savannah and getting a behind the scenes. Look at how they create an amazing client experience and I'm saying that with a firsthand experience and say we're my web design company and no, they didn't pay me or give me a free discount, to say that I paid full price and I still loved them. So check out Napsack if you are a Squarespace website or if you're thinking about moving to Squarespace. Their experiences amazing. They do beautiful work. I adore them.
Speaker 2:And if you enjoyed this episode, remember to like, rate, review, subscribe and hit share. I'm going to give you a second right now. Do it, Hit that share button, share it with a friend and let them know hey, this is how you create an amazing client experience. So I'm going to reiterate some of my favorite points from that. So what they do is they have really clear SOPs, standard operating procedures, and they have it all documented. They have templates for their project management that are all ready to go. They have a website dedicated to just client onboarding where they have the roadmap that clients will experience on there and they just duplicate it, change the URL. So it's just for you and you have a clear overview of what you need to use content, snare together all of the information that they need to be able to do the project as efficiently as possible.
Speaker 2:And last, they live and die by time blocks and they had a really beautiful system for that, which I'm totally going to steal as soon as I'm done recording this episode, Going to go into my calendar start time blocking it. So beautiful creatures. Thank you again for joining me. I love you. I love you, I love you, I appreciate you, and the fact that you spend time listening to me jabber on about marketing every week means the world to me. Goodbye.