51: Maximizing Revenue by Bridging the Sales-Marketing Gap with Nathan Yeung

Imagine a world where your sales and marketing efforts aren't at odds, but instead, they're in perfect harmony, working together to significantly boost your revenue. That's the world Nathan Yeung, founder of Find Your Audience, lives in every day! In our enlightening chat, Nathan pulls back the curtain on this integrated approach, sharing strategies for blending sales and marketing into a conversion rate optimization (CRO) role and illuminating the potential challenges in achieving this harmony.

Our conversation gets really interesting as we delve into the concept of scrubbing, a cunning technique well-known in the affiliate marketing realm. As a lifelong marketing enthusiast and a fractional CMO, Nathan's perspective on the customer's role in shaping an effective strategy is quite compelling. His belief in the power of user-generated content in marketing, and his insights on how marketing can act as a robust support to sales are sure to give you food for thought.

But the nuggets of wisdom don't stop there. We also discuss the importance of sales enablement tools and how they can increase the success rate of your sales calls. Plus, we get into the nitty-gritty of crafting a work-back schedule and sequencing retargeting to create a captivating narrative. As we wrap up, we underscore the power of a well-crafted call to action and engagement opportunities. If increasing revenue through seamless integration of sales and marketing is on your agenda, this chat with Nathan Young is what your playlist needs!

🔗 RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Meetup Group: https://www.meetup.com/entrepreneurship-meetup-group-northwest-illinois-suburbs/

https://www.findyouraudience.online/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/yeungnathan/

Website: https://www.sarahnoelblock.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahnoelblock/
Newsletter: https://tinymarketing.me/newsletter
Tiny Marketing Community

Click here to ask a question about the episode

Transcript

Nathan Yeung: 0:03

I'm really a big believer in the fact that you can't really prescribe marketing. Marketing is. I almost look at it as like you're a doctor, when you go into a business because it's so different in so many different ways, and so you have to kind of look at all the symptoms of that organization and then diagnose the disease and that disease is what you treat.

Sarah Block: 0:31

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Tiny Marketing. Today I am talking to Nathan Young, the founder of Find your Audience, and we are going to be talking about how to integrate marketing and sales. As we've talked about so many times on this show, marketing and sales are often at each other's throats, but that doesn't need to be the case. It really doesn't. In the end, our goal is the same. Our goal is to sell, our goal is to make money for the business, so it's really kind of detrimental to the business as a whole when marketing and sales can't get along. Today we're going to be talking about how you can amplify your revenue and uncover the secrets of successful marketing and sales integration. So get pumped, get ready and stay tuned to be a fly on the wall with my conversation with Nathan.

Nathan Yeung: 1:31

My name is Nathan Young. I run a firm called Find your Audience. We've been in business for about seven years, but really I'm a fractional CMO across multiple industries like everything from IT, recruiting, professional services, private equity, series A companies, b2b, saas and really have just been marketing for almost like for my actual lifetime probably like 15 years. So lots of marketing experiences and someone who enjoys being really hands-on, so tactically proficient in every part of marketing. So I've been definitely a person who's a lifelong learner in marketing.

Sarah Block: 2:09

A proud generalist.

Nathan Yeung: 2:11

Proud generalist. No, I have some specialties. I'm definitely a specialist in SEO, so I'm a generalist, but I definitely have like high affinities and certain tactical areas.

Sarah Block: 2:20

Yeah, that makes sense. I would consider myself a generalist too, but I focus more on content marketing than anything else. Amazing. So I want to talk deeply into sales and marketing, the blending of it. But first, how did you come up with your name? The Find your Audience. What's the origin story?

Nathan Yeung: 2:47

The origin story is funny because there's three guys that started it myself, paul and Ray and we were all media buyers. So we were all kind of just doing like super affiliate stuff on the side and we're just like let's just start an agency called Find your Audience, because that's like all we do. We find people online and we serve them ads and we hope for them to click, and that was kind of the origins. Okay, and honestly, our name kind of plays For us and also against us. It plays for us because it's find your audience online, which is literally a sentence, and then for everyone who writes our emails, they hate us because it's incredibly long. So it's just been. It's been a long time coming for us to think about maybe even changing names. But that's really where it came from. We were all media buyers and we thought, hey, you know, we help people find their audience. That's literally what we do, so let's just call it that.

Sarah Block: 3:48

Well, that makes sense. You so that media buying was your origin. Do you still do that?

Nathan Yeung: 3:55

We do it to like a much more limited expense. For anyone who's ever done media arbitrage, you're cash flowing like 60, 70, 80, 90 thousand dollars a month easily and it's a little bit different from like our B2B clients like we do. Like we do a lot of real estate launches, so we're spending a hundred grand at a time but that's like on a contract and like we get paid for that and and I can touch and feel those people, like I can see them in Person. When I'm spending 90 grand credit card bills for someone overseas on an overseas like offer, like you have no idea when or how you're gonna get paid.

Nathan Yeung: 4:33

And now we stop that, because it's incredibly great money. So for those are listening like you make tons of money, but it's so stressful. Like you, you have no idea if they will read an egg on your offer, right, they can go on paying you five dollars late oh, we're gonna give you three. We're gonna give you two and a half. Oh, we're gonna cut half your leads.

Sarah Block: 4:51

So it's not like for the faint of heart you know, yeah, and my heart feels faint right now hearing those numbers.

Nathan Yeung: 5:00

Yeah, I think the most we ever had on a credit card bill in one month. I was like 230,000 usd. Yeah, and that's Canadians. That's like 30% more. So that's like 300 grand.

Sarah Block: 5:11

Oh my god. So I feel like you're speaking from experience that people have backed away and haven't Haven't paid those.

Nathan Yeung: 5:21

There's the dark side of affiliate marketing, which you know maybe I'll get a lot of hate on if anyone's listening but there are things called scrubbing and scrubbing is a very common Tactic. It is something that's baked into every affiliate networks model and it's really just a part of their margin. So if you're part of the affiliate network and you send a hundred leads, their platform naturally has a mechanism that says scrub five to ten percent of those leads. And they do that for two reasons. One, they're also representing the offer on the, on a primary relationship perspective, and sometimes those primary people scrub them. So essentially, that five to ten percent is is a buffer for them in case that you do send bad leads. But then, at the same time, if you don't send bad leads, they just keep that buffer right. So they essentially make a free ten percent on your, on your lead.

Sarah Block: 6:08

So yeah, it's a very common practice oh. My gosh. I am not part of that world at all, so that's completely new to me.

Nathan Yeung: 6:16

It is heart wrenching, it's. It causes a lot of stress.

Sarah Block: 6:19

Yeah, I imagine. Well, we've really rabbit hole. Nice and good on that topic, but we are focusing on being a fractional CMO and One thing that you do is build marketing departments from scratch. Can you tell me about your process?

Nathan Yeung: 6:36

It really depends on the organization. I'm really a big believer in the fact that, like, you can't really prescribe marketing. Like marketing is. I almost like look at it as like you're a doctor when you go into a business because it's so Different in so many different ways, and so you have to kind of look at all the symptoms of that organization and then diagnose the disease and that disease is what you treat. And so I think the way I you know, we build teams is really dependent on the maturity of the industry, the maturity of the organization, the maturity of the human resources, and then then taking that and then applying it against the, the constraints.

Nathan Yeung: 7:16

So what's your human capital constraints, what's our monetary constraints? And then trying to figure out, okay, well, if this is our world and this is our box, what are the biggest and most impactful things we can do? And like the funny thing that I always bring up because, like I feel like Everyone talks about it it's like let's do tick-tock, let's do rules, and I always look at the organization and I go. Your entire organization is like the average age of 35 and Mostly male, so the likelihood of you having some young, spry content creator in your team is very unlikely. So I'm glad that you are watching tick-tock and I'm glad that your kids are watching tick-tock and you feel very influenced, but you have zero probability on executing on the stack. Very well.

Sarah Block: 8:03

So so you have to give some hard truths occasionally.

Nathan Yeung: 8:05

Yeah, and so so I'm like, look like I totally like if you were a Gen Z company that was like bootstrap that you, there's a probability that one of your younger employees could probably just like do it on a whim. But some organizations just learn equipped for that, and so I really have to tell them look, you got to focus on what you can do and we, and then you have to double down on those things because it's better than trying to really honestly chase like shining objects.

Sarah Block: 8:32

Yeah, so this goes into a little bit of what. What I do when I'm building out a strategy at the end is figuring out what can you actually do in-house with the team and the budget that you already have, and then looking at the customer avatar first, like who do you want to clone and Try and replicating that journey for them. People feel like they have to be everywhere and show up on all platforms, but you really don't have to.

Nathan Yeung: 9:04

Absolutely. And the other thing as well. I always go like, when you're constrained, like we did a study and there's lots of studies out there that say, like the amount of frequency that you have to show an ad is anywhere between like 9 to 14 somewhere around there. Our studies showed that it was like 30 and above.

Sarah Block: 9:21

That one person has to see it. Yeah, the influence Wow.

Nathan Yeung: 9:24

Yeah, before you actually really start remembering something, and that comes down that kind of brings everything in full circle to one Sort of point of truth. The point of truth is is that if you don't have a lot of money and you don't have a lot of time, you don't have a lot of resources. You really have to get that one impression and do it really really, really, really well, because that's not the time you can afford it, right.

Nathan Yeung: 9:51

So if you do a really bad tiktok reel and you know you're lucky enough to land on that CEO whose kids watching it, you end up showing up on their feed and your tiktok looks like it's amateur hour and just like terrible, you've lost that lead and you're never gonna get the back. So it goes back to this whole idea, that is, you know, the more constrained you are, the more you're likely needing to focus on either an amazing creative or amazing Execution, because you're not really going to have the, the power or the money to do something consistently, and so therefore, it's even more important. So you can't see, you can't, can't spread yourself in, because then you're just not doing yourself any favors.

Sarah Block: 10:32

Yeah, you have a whole bunch of trash Out all over the internet and stuff, so we're focusing on quality over quantity is what I'm hearing 100%, 100% and and bizarre.

Nathan Yeung: 10:44

You know, don't be scared to be bizarre, I like, I think. I think so many companies are so scared of being a little quirky the house right and like If anyone's watched Ryan Reynolds recently. Everything he does is quirky and there's a reason for that, and he's made more money than you probably have if you're listening to this, but if you think Ryan Reynolds is is stupid or he hasn't done well.

Nathan Yeung: 11:07

Well, I can tell you, he's made, you know you, 50 million dollar companies into 200 million dollar companies, why BC's made amazing storytelling kind of journeys and and he's made them quirky, and when they're quirky you remember, and so he's got both the distribution and the quirkiness going through.

Sarah Block: 11:23

Yeah, he's a really good example too, of like taking your personality and owning it and you become known for that thing, and that can be your differentiator. He has been like exactly the same since, like Van Wilder days.

Nathan Yeung: 11:39

Yeah, yeah. The only thing we were just talking about was like Amity Bill Horror, I think that was like the only thing we were, that was the blur.

Sarah Block: 11:45

Yeah, that was, he was like very serious. I remember seeing that in the theater. I'm like, huh, it's not, it's not very Van Wilder of him.

Nathan Yeung: 11:55

No, yeah, I know.

Sarah Block: 11:56

Okay, let's go back to building that marketing team from scratch. It sounds like you first focus on the team that they have in-house and then how do you decide who to bring on, or if they're going to be fractional or in-house.

Nathan Yeung: 12:12

We really again just look at that budget and look at what they need. It's really down to their ideal customer profiles and really understanding, like, where those customers are Right, you know, like where's the on-house background?

Nathan Yeung: 12:26

Are they on LinkedIn? Are they in conferences? A great example I gave in another podcast was I was talking about the cybersecurity space and, like how most chief security officers, or like information officers or CTOs, when it comes to cybersecurity they like, uniquely hate like anything digital because, if you think about it, like their whole job is to stop phishing.

Sarah Block: 12:49

They don't trust it, they don't trust it.

Nathan Yeung: 12:52

So can you imagine being like a marketing guy and just be like, hey, would you like to come on a demo? It's like they're natively they don't like it and so predominantly like a lot of that is corporate event marketing. So a lot of cybersecurity companies really actually need to go to conferences or they have to be very creative in terms of getting in front of people. So really looking into those industries, really looking at those ideal customer profiles and just being honest on like where are these people? And then really looking at the organization and then saying, okay, what can we do to get into those channels as well? So, god forbid, you're in a 40 plus age organization and the only channel that their customers are on TikTok, then they're going to have to hack they're going to either have to hire, like an agency or like a freelancer to be a content creator and they're going to have to go on to TikTok and really be active there.

Nathan Yeung: 13:46

So it's really matching those two and then we kind of figure out where those resource gaps are.

Sarah Block: 13:51

They could also seek out people who are already creators on TikTok and create like a brand deal with them.

Nathan Yeung: 13:57

Yeah, user generated content is king, especially when it comes to e-commerce, and so, you know, even in real estate actually on a real estate agent perspective, I always recommend doing UGC for developers. So I think, if you have the capacity and you have the coordination capability, really going out into that market and generating that content with use like actual content creators, is an amazing tool for a variety of different reasons.

Sarah Block: 14:22

Yeah, people trust it more. For anybody who's listening and doesn't know what UGC is, it's user generated content.

Nathan Yeung: 14:28

So you're king of acronyms.

Sarah Block: 14:32

Just in case anyone listening doesn't know what that is. So I wanted to loop back around to what you were saying about security, because I just have a funny little connection with that. I just finished a strategy and their core customer was a CIO's chief innovation officers but I found the same thing that when I was interviewing their customers, they never talked anything about anything digital. I was like trying to figure out where they find their information, how they solve their problems, and it was always talking to their network going to conferences, anything with innovation in the name they were happy to go to, but it was all in-person stuff. So that's a funny connection.

Nathan Yeung: 15:17

Yeah, yeah. They're very, very serious people and they take their job very seriously and they don't like security breaches.

Sarah Block: 15:23

Yes, and if there's digital involved, there's a breach that's going to happen. So in your intake form, you mentioned that marketing and sales should blend. I really want to dive into that. I agree with you, and as someone who is in corporate marketing for 10 years before I started my own thing, I know it's really hard to do that too, so I want your perspective on that. Well, here you said that sales and marketing should blend into a CRO role. Can you explain that?

Nathan Yeung: 16:00

I think, at the end of the day, every organization wants revenue. If you look at the ICPs that talk about marketing, they all end up in the same place why aren't we making more money? And two people would generally get blamed for that. Marketing gets blamed because, quote, unquote, no one knows us. Or B sales gets blamed, be like, why aren't you closing? And then it becomes this vicious cycle of well, it's because marketing's not bringing enough people. And then typically then marketing goes well, we don't have enough money. And then the CEO goes well, we don't have enough revenue, so you don't get budget. So then it's like a vicious cycle where basically, you're explaining my life for 10 years.

Nathan Yeung: 16:45

And so I think this problem started when digital marketing became a thing, and I think there was a large, massive movement and even including myself in my earlier years of marketing where I was like, oh my God, marketing is so measurable, everyone should be in performance marketing. There's so much power in performance marketing, but that whole movement has pigeonholed the living Jesus of marketing people, and what I mean by pigeonholed is everyone that's a marketer nowadays gets pigeonholed into this. Where's my inbound KPI framework? That is typically including KPIs around MQLs, and I always go like MQLs is kind of a meaningless number at the end of the day, because Marketing qualified leads.

Nathan Yeung: 17:32

for anyone who doesn't know what that is Marketing qualified leads is a meaningless number because, first of all, it depends on how you define it, but just generally speaking, let's just say someone who fills a form. And then, second of all, mqls is not a number that drives revenue. Sqls are, which is sales, qualified leads, which is, you know, the people that actually turn into someone who's interested, and then, of course, the actual conversion of them closing. So sales qualified lead isn't even a sale, it's just the person who's interested, indicated interest, and then there's ultimately a sale. So I go, at the end of the day, this all leads back to revenue.

Nathan Yeung: 18:06

And so why do we focus so much on this MQL number when there's so much of that journey that is not within the control of a marketing person? And so you know, I find your audience. We really say we help amplify revenue, we're marketing functions that amplify revenue, and that means not only on an inbound perspective, which means we're helping get leads into the door, on a top of funnel perspective, but also you know, riddle me this if I doubled the productivity of your salesperson, because your salesperson is no longer wasting their time on a CRM automation, customer relationship management tool like a HubSpot and figuring that out, designing email campaigns that they shouldn't be.

Sarah Block: 18:51

No, they should not.

Nathan Yeung: 18:52

Trying to copyright when they're really just phone people coordinating a conference of which they figured out last minute, like if we doubled the productivity, took all of those meaningless tasks away and had your salespeople, who are really technical solutions people, people who are great at understanding, going through discovery and providing solutions on a call, could that also amplify your revenue? And the answer is yes. So this idea that a marketing function goes in and they're only driven by MQLs is a fallacy, because there are organizations that are sales led and there's nothing wrong from marketing function to go into a sales led organization and double the productivity of sales because it's a sales led organization. Yeah.

Sarah Block: 19:43

I am 100% on board with you on that and I kind of see that as like a secular help to when it comes to marketing and sales, because the salespeople are experts on the customer, so marketing can create so much better and more effective marketing with the support from sales. And if sales is working with like account based sales, that where, like construction companies typically are going after the same type of accounts, marketing can then create campaigns specifically for those accounts and everybody is more effective.

Nathan Yeung: 20:22

And construction is a great example, because I've talked to a very large construction company. They're like we don't need marketing, people come to us. I'm like that's fair. But like, have you ever seen your salesperson try to organize a dinner?

Nathan Yeung: 20:33

and out of curiosity do you think they do a great job or do you think they just make a reservation? So I understand that salespeople and in certain industries it's very inbound, it's very referral and the touch points are very influenced by those touch points. But it doesn't mean you can't do a better job on things that they're really just not great at. So let marketing help them on that, let marketing be a glorified assistant to them, but making sure that every experience, every touch point they have is going to be amazing with that customer.

Sarah Block: 21:05

Yeah, so my background in corporate was exactly what you're talking about. I have been working with, like building product companies and construction companies for a long time and that is how I support them is I work with them on account based marketing, so I'm creating marketing that's specific for those accounts. I'm amplifying their reach so when they're trying to connect with new people and network with them they've already heard of us because of the marketing that I've done and then all of those little things that they don't want to do, like or that they shouldn't be doing, like the email campaigns, the events those were all on me. But yeah, I think of marketing in those capacities where it sales led as a support for them and an amplifier, like you said.

Nathan Yeung: 21:56

Yeah, and I think people, people really want to chase that golden, you know egg where it's like well, marketing is this like inbound machine, this dream machine, and they really just forget like, marketing can still be very much of support function, but it is a productivity function and that productivity can be amplified. The more salespeople you have, the more useful this is. And we have implemented this in some organizations where we have cut the MQLs in half but we have increased revenue. So does that mean I've done a piss-poor job? Well, for some organizations, yeah, but you know, the the end of the day, it's about revenue.

Nathan Yeung: 22:33

So if we can cut MQLs in half and we can increase top of line, then, you know, does it really matter? So that's why I think sales and marketing need to be a bit more aligned. And I think this idea of pitching, holding marketing people into MQLs and like these impressions and like all these stupid metrics that I like to call our amateur hour metrics, why? Because you bring them up because you have no idea why they're valuable, like some marketing guy has sold you on it, which is, which is our job, but you know, it's just it's it's it's. It just shows that some organizations are very much in the nascent level of their, their education, when it comes to marketing. It's like they're very infant in the stage of growth yeah.

Sarah Block: 23:17

So what I'm hearing?

Nathan Yeung: 23:19

if MQLs are getting cut in half and revenue is growing, then you are focusing on what higher quality leads and maybe supporting sales and up leveling the, the packages that they're selling you know, higher quality leads, better sales packages, better nurturing campaigns, better cadences, more case studies, more enablement tools, so that the the chances of them closing are higher, right, so, yes, a salesperson is going to be amazing on educating and talking to a customer, making those customers feel heard, but those materials that we produce that are very specific to their pain points and demonstrating our benefits are really, really, really important. But I always say this you know, every business has category benefits, which is everything that every other company can provide. It's your job to prove which benefit you do the best at, and the only way you do that is through marketing materials and spending the time to produce great materials.

Sarah Block: 24:18

I'm reading obviously awesome right now, which is about positioning and messaging, but it talked exactly about that that find what benefits you do better than anybody else and just talk about those.

Nathan Yeung: 24:32

That is your thing and I think again, that always goes back to this whole thing you as a person are always constrained, as a business are constrained, so you have like limited time frames and touch points to influence someone and if you can't do it the best in that limited time frame, then you're really losing an opportunity. So when you're spread thin, you have bad case studies, you have bad web copy, you have a bad website, you have bad sales tax, and then you just lose opportunity. Whether at least you can have an amazing sales deck, like a deck that just crushes. It hits every single pain point, has amazing infographics, and when someone's on the call, they're like I have really no questions, like you've really just answered everything. I totally understand it. It's super simple. Like where do I sign up? And I think that's super important versus trying to do everything.

Sarah Block: 25:22

Yeah. So I'm hearing a lot about constraints and focusing in on certain things. So what are some marketing tactics that you would always put first that people should prioritize?

Nathan Yeung: 25:39

That's a really good one. Sales Decks and Case Studies, I think, just right from the get go. It's such a painful thing and so many companies really avoid it, and companies also forget how long it takes to build those. So I think if you're an organization and you're stumbling right now, really go back to the basics. Go figure out again how are you proving your worth and trying to create as much material around that? Because those tools ultimately sell themselves. Those become a part of your product-led journey, product-led growth model. You produce them well and they're amazing tools for your salespeople. So I think, really sales enablement tools. There's a lot of organizations that still have sales decks that aren't institutionalized, meaning templated, to any extent, and there's a lot of organizations that are off-brand because salespeople are doing all willy-nilly stuff on the side. And then there's often also a lot of organizations where none of the salespeople actually even know where their materials are.

Sarah Block: 26:36

Yes, a lot of the things you're saying I have experienced and seen too.

Nathan Yeung: 26:41

Product sheet. What product sheet? The product sheet we just launched last week. You were part of launch. I didn't even know we had a product sheet. It's like, well, yeah, well, we launched the product. So I really think it sounds so simple.

Nathan Yeung: 26:53

But you also have to think about focus on the opportunities you have, and so the reason why I say sales enablement tools are so important is, if you're on a sales call, that's a massive opportunity for you. So if you can optimize the closing rates of your sales calls, that's a big win. So you can double the percentage of that or even increase it by 10% to 15%. That's massive and, if you think about it, the most valuable to you because it takes so much time and energy and money to get that person a door. So a lot of people go oh well, they're already in the door. So why would I focus on sales enablement tools? No, you're not looking at it properly. If you can increase the closing rate by 10% to 15%, what does that ultimately mean to your business? So if you really wanted to force feed this into an organization, you go. Isn't that actually the most important right now? And it usually is, or it's usually pretty close to being in the top. So I think that's a very easy direction for a lot of companies to go.

Nathan Yeung: 27:54

Seo is something I always talk about because it's something that's very time-oriented. So it's best to just start it early. Even if it's honestly half-baked, it's fine. Start it because it takes time and getting into just a calendar for the love of God, just get into a calendar. People Stop planning events next week. I tell a lot of companies the reason why we work on a 90-day work-back schedule is because when we're in a 90-day work-back schedule, we're actually creating more marketing dollars, because every time you do something last minute, not only do you do it worse, you also do it typically at a higher price. If you've got to order goods 90 days, if you can order it 100 days, it's probably cheaper. If you could buy billboards 100 days earlier, it's cheaper. When you do all these things ahead of time, you actually create more marketing dollars.

Nathan Yeung: 28:43

So people don't understand this concept right, so I go. I know a work-back schedule sounds daunting, but what if I told you, by doing a 90-day work-back schedule, you get 30% on your marketing dollars, Like on a finance perspective? You're getting 30% return on your marketing dollars.

Sarah Block: 28:58

It's hard to say no to that.

Nathan Yeung: 28:59

And then also it allows you to have the opportunity to do last-minute things. So imagine if you were 90 days out and you're like, wow, we're pretty good. And then someone comes to you and be like, hey, we've got a diamond sponsorship. The sponsor left. We thought of you guys, we'll give it to you guys 50%. You can jump onto that opportunity and crush it. And so now you have that flexibility to take in those opportunities and do it well. So I think a lot of people really underestimate why work-back schedule adds so much value to an organization.

Sarah Block: 29:28

So we're focusing primarily here on mid-funnel to bottom of funnel. So yes, mqls were cut in half, but those half that you did get, what are your favorite top of funnel strategies for that?

Nathan Yeung: 29:45

Top of funnel right now is really returning journeys. So for the non-fancy media buyers, you can split up your audiences based on the time frames they've entered into the audience and by doing that you can actually sequence their retargeting so that it's a bit more storytelling. So, for example, you can essentially create audiences between like seven and what's just called 7, 14, and 30 days, and then you can subtract those audience from one another. So essentially, you're only getting the in-betweens, meaning you're only getting the 17-day audiences, then you're getting the 7 to 14-day audiences and then you're getting the 14 to 30-day audiences. And when you do that, you can do storytelling. So now I can show a person my ad four or five times and that's one part of my story. Then between the 7 to 14, you can show them another part of the story, and then at the 14 to 30, you can do another part of the story. Now you go, wow, that sounds amazing. Now the other thing is it is a pain to do, it sounds intense. Yeah, so this is why you pay, and I'm not saying you guys need to hire me. You guys can certainly learn this, but this shows you that this is why I'm very hard on digital media buyers all the time because, just for everyone that's listening, platforms are made for you to make it easy.

Nathan Yeung: 31:08

But if you want to be good, you can do it. You do stuff like I just talked about where you're creating these audiences, you're creating these pockets of audiences based on days, you're actually creating a storytelling or you're retargeting on some kind of finicky level. You know, I said on Facebook Facebook is really bad because they only do radius targeting and sometimes you really want a pinpoint on a location. So for anyone that's listening that does this, you can do this manual process where you do the radius and then you do exclusion radiuses all the way around, so then you're actually smaller than the minimum amount. So usually the minimum amount is like a mile to five miles, so you can then do the exclusions. Then you're like even less than a mile. So it's only this little tiny dot. So these manipulation tactics and media buying can really help you do top of funnel things and be like hyper targeted and like really take your dollar a long way.

Sarah Block: 31:57

I love that. So I'm working on a strategy right now, and part of it is a hyper targeted advertising, because we want to create demand gen for specific buildings, and now I know how to do it with Facebook.

Nathan Yeung: 32:15

The other one that I would highly recommend is they are a digital auto home networks, and there is 100% likely a digital auto home network that has elevator ads in those buildings, so I would recommend that you also look into that space, because you could actually probably buy the elevator ad in that building.

Sarah Block: 32:33

Brilliant, that is brilliant. I'm actually having that call tomorrow and I'm adding that in. Oh, I love that. Thank you, you've given me so much good stuff in this, in this interview.

Nathan Yeung: 32:47

I'm glad that's. That's my goal. Every host says what do you want to talk about? I was like I don't care what I want to talk. What do you want me to talk about for your audience? You tell me that.

Sarah Block: 32:56

Well, you delivered.

Nathan Yeung: 32:58

I'm glad.

Sarah Block: 32:59

Is there anything else that you want to go over before we wrap up?

Nathan Yeung: 33:02

Done in Kruger effect. If you haven't looked that up, look that up. I can guarantee that's likely you, and it's this lovely little graph that shows that you are far more confident than you know and then through time you start realizing you're wrong. It's a beautiful graph because it probably explains half of the. It's like when a guy goes into, like, the furniture stores and tries to do the whole like build without looking at the instructions it's the done in Kruger effect. We go in there thinking, yeah, yeah, I know what I'm doing. And then you break it and then you realize it's a lot harder than you think it is.

Nathan Yeung: 33:32

But this like spans across everything I'm doing a bunch of consumers Like if you, if you follow my channel, fyi dot marketing bites, I talk about all these consumer research articles and I stumbled across the done in Kruger effect and it's hilarious because it literally explains, like why most people feel the way and why most people think that they're marketers. Because you start off at this peak where it's like I know everything, and then through time, through research, you realize that that curve dips really quickly.

Sarah Block: 34:02

Oh yeah, oh yeah. I mean, I've been in marketing for 15 years also and there's so much I don't know. I stick to my thing, the thing I'm good at.

Nathan Yeung: 34:12

Yeah, so I recommend everyone because I think you'll get a giggle when you look at the graph. It's hilarious.

Sarah Block: 34:18

Yeah, I need to look at that and then show my husband, who's right out there and has broken many IKEA furniture trying to put it together without directions.

Nathan Yeung: 34:25

Yeah, this is a little harder than I thought. Yeah.

Sarah Block: 34:31

I'll figure it out. It'll be fine. All right, how can everyone reach you? Can you say your website or your YouTube channel again and how they can work with you?

Nathan Yeung: 34:41

Yeah, awesome. So you can find me on LinkedIn at Nathan Young's, spelled Y-E-U-N-G. I have an Instagram channel which is F-Y-A. Dot marketing bites with a Y, and then you can also find our agency website at wwwfindyouraudienceonline. Contact me anywhere. Contact me on Instagram. If you want to go on TikTok. I'm also there with marketing bites, but realistically, you can find me on either Find your Audience or Marketing Bites, and those are pretty searchable terms.

Sarah Block: 35:08

Sweet and it'll be in the show notes. Awesome, so you can just click on down below. Clicking might be easier, probably. All right, thank you for joining me today.

Nathan Yeung: 35:19

Thank you, Sarah.

Sarah Block: 35:20

Bye. That wraps up another episode of the Tiny Marketing Show. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Nathan, where we talked all about how to integrate marketing and sales so your business can make more money, because that's our goal. We want to keep getting that salary. We need to make money, right, right.

Sarah Block: 35:49

All right, if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate, review, subscribe. You could be listening to this or watching this, I don't know Wherever you happen to be. Take some action, all right. All of your reviews, your subscribes, your follows really mean so much to me. I joke, I joke. I joke, it really really does, and I'm constantly looking at my podcast analytics, like trying to do my best to support you, looking and seeing what topics really interest you. You matter to me more than you think. If you're watching this on YouTube, you have an opportunity to make a comment and tell me what is it that you want to hear in future Tiny Marketing episodes. And last, if you are listening to this and you happen to live in the Chicago area, I have been hosting networking and walking sessions around town, so I'm going to drop a link to my meetup page in the show notes and maybe we could hang out in real life and go for a little walk and talk, yeah, so look for that and I'll see you next time. Bye friends.